Armored weapon combat w/striking, grappling and subs

[DdlR]

This is from a recent SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) event. The rules assumed that the fighters were wearing chainmail, so solid weapon thrusts or cuts landing on a vulnerable area won the fight. However, unusually for this type of tournament, they were also allowed to kick, punch, throw and grapple.

IMO most of these fights don't demonstrate a very high degree of skill, but it's good to see some sparring that clearly shows the important place of clinching, throwing and grappling in armored weapon combat.

YouTube - Pennsic 38 - Full Grappling -Tu Chux Tournament - Mixed Weapons

[rocketsurgeon]

I'm in the next list over, winning at 3:41, losing at 4:07.

Most of the participants don't fight with these rules normally. This is a modified ruleset which meets halfway between how the Tu Chux fight all the time (light contact targeting toes to crown, grappling, puching, etc. is allowed) and mainstream SCA contact (significantly heavier contact for a "good" blow, no grappling, target area one inch above the wrist and one inch above the knee).

Another wrinkle is that when you step into the list you pick a card with a weapon on it and that's what you pull out of the pile and fight with. Most of the fighters are using a weapon that they've never held before.

[selfcritical]

So, in my neck of the woods, SCA guys don't actually have any WMA training...things different out here?

[DdlR]

So, in my neck of the woods, SCA guys don't actually have any WMA training...things different out here?

I'm not SCA, but from what I've heard some groups are much more into HEMA/WMA than others. That's at the local level - the rules of SCA heavy weapons sparring at the organizational level are "problematical" from the POV of historical fencing as a martial art.

[Sley]

now thats hard core larping, looks like a ton of fun

[DdlR]

Nah, this is hardcore LARPing -

YouTube - Ars Dimicandi - i Gladiatori

[rocketsurgeon]

IMHO, it helps to understand the SCA's choice of rules if you view it through their focus on melee. The mainstream rules I described above are aimed at allowing a few thousand people to fight each other. If it seems like it would be problematic in melee, the powers that be are not likely to allow it, and honestly there's a general fear of grappling amongst the old heads.

Essentially, groups like the Tu Chux will play by whatever rules they want, just as DdlR mentioned the variance of the local groups. The SCA wants everybody to be able to play, so the rules are a limited target area and limited set of techniques. The fun part comes at times like this:

YouTube - sca fighting pennsic shieldcam

0:31, he looks right and sees a unit crashing his flank.

This is IMO the beauty of the SCA, and though you can certainly find guys who can discuss Talhoffer (there are scheduled classes at the larger events), you're probably more likely to find guys who have stepped it up from boffer swords.

[DdlR]

I find that "fear of grappling" to be very interesting. Deep-rooted stuff, methinks ...

[Sley]

well think of it this way, their covered in Armour maybe their scared of getting suffocated, and in the big groups of being crushed.

[tim_stl]

well think of it this way, their covered in Armour maybe their scared of getting suffocated, and in the big groups of being crushed.

i've only been to one war, but the leg armor was the only thing that saved my knee from getting bent sideways from a large mass of people falling on it.

seemed to me that while they pay a lot of attention to the rules in dueling, they're pretty much ignored in a war. lots of skirmishes were controlled through shield-bashing shoving matches, which are obviously against the rules. judging by the old hands' surprise at how well i fought, i think a little wrestling would do them a world of good.



tim