UFC titleholder expectations

**ADM** · Posted On: 8/11/2009 2:09am

I completely disagree, I think the UFC has gone from strength to strength to STRENGTH! I find the reasons to base this theory of yours on flawed. You seem to forget that things like Pride went belly up, there's a lesson there.

**WARminowaman** · Posted On: 8/11/2009 2:27am

Originally Posted by ADM

I completely disagree, I think the UFC has gone from strength to strength to STRENGTH! I find the reasons to base this theory of yours on flawed. You seem to forget that things like Pride went belly up, there's a lesson there.

Pride only failed because Fuji TV discovered that Dreamstage Entertainment was being run by the yakuza. The UFC has only got stronger due to Pride's demise and MMA's popularity in the US.

Anyway, I wasn't saying that the UFC was weak per se, just that a lack of real competition breeds complacency. The UFC in its current state is a tired old format in dire need of an injection of energy or a change in direction. Something NEW. They might have the best fighters, but Dream, Strikeforce, and the car crash that is now Affliction entertained me a lot more. And that's what I'm in MMA for: entertainment.

Dana, I propose UFC Bushido! Oh hang on, that's the WEC... Well just use some more bloody fireworks, that screaming Pride woman, or something.

**bigstu31s** · Posted On: 8/11/2009 4:32am

Originally Posted by WARminowaman

Pride only failed because Fuji TV discovered that Dreamstage Entertainment was being run by the yakuza. The UFC has only got stronger due to Pride's demise and MMA's popularity in the US.

Anyway, I wasn't saying that the UFC was weak per se, just that a lack of real competition breeds complacency. The UFC in its current state is a tired old format in dire need of an injection of energy or a change in direction. Something NEW. They might have the best fighters, but Dream, Strikeforce, and the car crash that is now Affliction entertained me a lot more. And that's what I'm in MMA for: entertainment.

Dana, I propose UFC Bushido! Oh hang on, that's the WEC... Well just use some more bloody fireworks, that screaming Pride woman, or something.

It seems like you want to turn this into WWE wrestlemania ****.
**** that ****, I only watch the fights not the glitz and glammer bullshit

**WARminowaman** · Posted On: 8/11/2009 4:51am

Originally Posted by bigstu31s

It seems like you want to turn this into WWE wrestlemania ****.
**** that ****, I only watch the fights not the glitz and glammer bullshit

Ha ha, calm down fella. I don't want to see WWE :wrestlerf; I want the exact opposite: think big events like the boxing greats, events that everyone talks about, think buzz, think interviews where people don't have to sink to swearing, think fans NOT booing. Think Pride my man, think Pride (er, without the cans, freaks, yakuza, and dopers). I want the UFC to put MMA on a higher stage than it's current foul-mouthed, booing fans, seedy casinos, lowest common-denominator low class crap.

Constant improvement and proper product placement is the centre of any business, and the UFC has to step up. Or another promotion will (yes, I do yearn for a M1/Dream/Strikeforce merger).

We'll keep your horrible mangling of 'glamour' between ourselves; I had an education in the UK too and appreciate how bad it is. Can't say I miss the place.

**ADM** · Posted On: 8/11/2009 6:51am

Originally Posted by bigstu31s

It seems like you want to turn this into WWE wrestlemania ****.
**** that ****, I only watch the fights not the glitz and glammer bullshit

I wouldn't try reasoning with this idiot, you'd only waste precious brain cells trying to comprehend what he's thinking.

**madrigan** · Posted On: 8/11/2009 8:13am

Originally Posted by laevus

*snip*snip*snip*Are people seriously pissed about this?

I am, because I think the UFC could be providing more significant matches than they are right now. But there's another issue, which is the quality of the championships themselves. GSP has defended his title twice this year, and there is still time for him to defend again. Lesnar has defended his title once this year, and given the timing of the Carwin - Velasquez match, he is unlikely to fight again this year.

My point isn't GSP rulez Brock sux, that's a different thread. GSP and Lesnar will, most likely, end up holding their titles throughout 2009 -- but in fact what they are doing to hold the titles is very different. I think that the quality of a title depends on the quality of the champion and on what that champion actually does. Lesnar might turn out to be a a great fighter, but if he is only expected to fight once a year, what kind of champion is he, and what kind of championship does he hold? Is he a professional athlete, or is his job just to appear in ads and at ringside? And finally, what kind of sport is it where the champions get to sit out most of a year instead of proving themselves against the top contenders?

Originally Posted by FLMKane

A title holder should be free to fight in any weight division he wants. Silva could retire as the middleweight champ and become the new catchweight champ, if he wants to.

Moreover, having champions defend their titles is meaningless, if there is nobody to defend against.

A fighter should be able to fight at whatever weight he can achieve, but not when he is holding a title. If Silva wants to fight at 205, he should be required to relinquish the title. If he wants the title, he should be defending it every time out. He should not be getting paid to carry out a division change experiment on PPV.

The champs should be defending against the best contenders, whoever they are. If a champion happens to be way better than those contenders, that's secondary -- and there is always a chance that a top level professional fighter will beat another top level professional fighter. It was not impossible for Griffin to beat Silva even though Silva was, and should have been, heavily favored.

There are a lot of great fighters in the world, and not all of them are in the UFC. If a UFC champion is lacking contenders, this only means that there are not enough contenders who want to come to the UFC on the terms that Dana White is offering. If the UFC ownership doesn't want to pay to have legitimate contenders in a division, then that title is meaningless and should be declared vacant. Having fighting champions with quality challengers is well within the control of White and the Fertitta's.

**WARminowaman** · Posted On: 8/11/2009 8:23am

Originally Posted by ADM

I wouldn't try reasoning with this idiot, you'd only waste precious brain cells trying to comprehend what he's thinking.

I think I already have!

**mike321** · Posted On: 8/11/2009 10:30am

Originally Posted by madrigan

There are a lot of great fighters in the world, and not all of them are in the UFC. If a UFC champion is lacking contenders, this only means that there are not enough contenders who want to come to the UFC on the terms that Dana White is offering. If the UFC ownership doesn't want to pay to have legitimate contenders in a division, then that title is meaningless and should be declared vacant. Having fighting champions with quality challengers is well within the control of White and the Fertitta's.

Brock came TO the UFC and won the championship. (I know WWE is entertainment) He is not FROM the UFC. (Only TUF participants can be considered from the UFC.)

Now to open a can of worms, what is the record of outside promotions in beating UFC fighters? I really don't know but am curious. Doesn't the UFC already promote the best fighters? Serious question, yes I have heard of Fedor, but who else is dominant that is staying out of UFC?

**FictionPimp** · Posted On: 8/11/2009 10:44am

Originally Posted by madrigan

I
A fighter should be able to fight at whatever weight he can achieve, but not when he is holding a title. If Silva wants to fight at 205, he should be required to relinquish the title. If he wants the title, he should be defending it every time out. He should not be getting paid to carry out a division change experiment on PPV.

Against who!!!

Silva moved weight because there is no one in his division that can touch him. I want to see Silva fight tough opponents, not guys where he basically treats them like sparing partners and does things like reach down and punch them in the leg. Let him take 2 or 3 titles, hell let him fight 2 guys at once. I don't give a ****, I just want to see the man knock people out.

**WARminowaman** · Posted On: 8/11/2009 11:05am

Originally Posted by mike321

Brock came TO Serious question, yes I have heard of Fedor, but who else is dominant that is staying out of UFC?

I won't include WEC because they're run by Zuffa, but to name a few fighters who would spice up the UFC some (and this is purely off the top of my head):

Eddie Alvarez, Brett Rogers, Jake Shields, Robbie Lawler, Shinya Aoki, Caol Uno, Renato Sobral, Gilbert Melendez, Nick Diaz, Katsunori Kikuno, Takanori Gomi, Alistair Overeem, (the one-dimensional) Melvin Manhoef, Cung Le (though he's doing movies right now), Gegard Mousasi, Tatsuya Kawajiri, and not forgetting of course women's MMA fighters such as Cyborg and Carano.

I would have added Sexiyama, Arlovski, and Barnett, but Sexy's in the UFC now, the bearded Ruskie has a glass jaw, and the Baby man is a roider.

BTW - anyone out there miss Charles "Crazy Horse" Bennett as much as I do? Heard he's serving time in jail. He delivered some sick KO's in his time.