Posted On:8/06/2009 11:56pm
Style: Yoshinkan Aikido, MMA
If you're not in the military or study any sort of aikido be a gem and don't post.
I've asked my Aikido instructor to come into my work over a weekend and give a quick aikido demo then spend some time teaching two platoons worth of guys some basic self defense and techniques geared towards restraining detainee's.
While training in Urban ops with full kit I noticed many new guys didn't really know what to do with resisting civilians and unarmed threats. 4 man stack would enter a room guy would be standing there empty handed or with a stick telling us to get the **** out and we'd have to control them. A lot of guys just looked at them, that or shot them heh. Not good for hearts and minds.
I wanna devote some training to it to get guys thinking.
I think I'll be able to swing a week-end initially (likely volunteer) and if it goes well maybe some more during working hours.
I don't want the basic into to self defense crap that you see where you're standing in the horse riding stance punching fucking air for 2 hours (been there). Considering the time restraints I wanna hit the ground running so to speak.
So far what I got is having the guys in full body armor, chest rig and helmet. Both with and without rifles. The main forcus like I said will be controlling unarmed and armed, non-cooperative 'civilians'. One many covers the other makes contact with them.
Does anyone have any ideas what I can put together in cooperation with my Aikido instructor? He obviously knows techniques better than me but I wanna put together a few techniques that will lend themselves to controlling someone with all the **** we have to carry.
Also does anyone have ideas as far as scenarios go? I'm big on making training fun, involved and drawing from the students not just 60 people looking at a guy showing off different holds. Scenarios are they way to go.
You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it
Posted On:8/07/2009 10:46am
Tried to edit my post- looking for anyone who has experience with either some form of aikido or understands the dynamics of unarmed combat in the military (not necessarily someone who does aikido in the military)
Posted On:8/07/2009 10:48am
Style: BJJ blue, judo ikkyu
Paging Simio De Las Rocas. What was his username before? Muhammed Jihad? And before that?
The wrist-grabbing Brit armour-driving bloke.
What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
Posted On:8/10/2009 2:52pm
I'm not an instructor, but I've got 5 years of experience, so here's my 2 cents: http://www.aikido-world.com/highligh...iminage1-1.htm A nice, slow iriminage, taught in steps, has a lot of good lessons in footwork and controling vs. overpowering (i.e. controling the chin to take balance instead of just choking a bitch). There's a reason Ikkyo is called ikkyo, it's also a wealth of primary concepts.
In my, far from expert opinion, keep it simple and focus on movement and keeping the body coordinated. I hope this is helpful.
Posted On:8/10/2009 3:00pm
Have you looked into the Control and Restraint type stuff? There's a lot of multiperson controls using locks and retraints that are similar to some aikido stuff.
But basically i'd think about elbow locking bouncer style come-alongs, ikyo style techniques pinning against a wall or floor, and the main thing is doing those kinds of things as a team, one guy each side, to the floor, tie up, job done. Thats what they need to rehearse, is the teamwork.
A friend of mine teaches C&R full time to nurses in loony bins etc, and that seems to be the main thing, training the team.
Posted On:8/10/2009 6:58pm
I'm just a weekend warrior, but for what it's worth, these are some of the scenario's we've thrown into our training.
- In the middle of searching or just as the soldier is going hands on, the searchee tries to make a run for it or make a grab at the cover man's weapon.
- Upon entering a room of unarmed people, one goes for a weapon on a table or whatever while the rest make a run for the door.
- Putting someone to the hard side a room that will alternately be cooperative/scared, unarmed and combative, or an armed threat.
- If you are feeling like a dick, I've been embarrassingly notionally killed in a scenario where the opfor faked a hostage and shooter situation, and after the first threat was engaged, had the "hostage" grab the weapon and engage us.
I don't have the aikido background to suggest much in the way of particular techniques, but this is what I've improvised at a section level before:
1. Against an unarmed, but combative threat: muzzle jab in the face/guts/groin, repeat as necessary and then go to 2.
2. Against someone who is passively resisting or just plain in the way: cradle your weapon into the chest with the supporting arm to keep it out of the way, drop the shoulder into them, and drive into the solid surface. It's not pretty, but the weight and momentum behind it should make it pretty easy to drive the person into a wall and smother them for a few seconds.
The next guy to hit that side of the room immediately goes to assist/cover the first in getting the person under control through whatever kind of takedown or technique that they are confident with. Some of the guys with a wrestling background had some success just sucking the legs out like you would executing a double leg against a MMA cage.
Last edited by thatrugbyguy; 8/10/2009 7:10pm at .
Posted On:8/10/2009 7:11pm
Style: judo hiatus
If you're inside mai, a crisp shomen ate.
Control the head, you control the body.
Stepping out of aikido and into judo, look at O soto gari.
Both being beginner moves that are quite effective.
Carter Hargrave's Jeet Can't Do
Posted On:8/10/2009 7:22pm
YouTube - Aikido iwama floridia hagakure - jo nage
And contact Kevin L and Dave.
Posted On:8/18/2009 12:42am
Awesome feedback guys thank you very much. Exactly what I'm looking for.
Posted On:8/18/2009 11:54pm
Style: BJJ,MT,RBSD (on hiatus)
You know, I've always been of the opinion that "military hand-to-hand" training should be 75%+ control & restraint and a small percentage attributed to other stuff since that is the most likelly scenario in which soldiers would go "hands-on".
This is probably not what you wanted to hear, but why reinvent the wheel yourself? I'm pretty sure Blauer's SPEAR system has material to deal with these scenarios and for effective control and restraint you could also look at ISR Matrix (which is LEO oriented but still very applicable). Both are available on DVD and be can ordered online.
I have the ISR DVDs if you want to take a look at them, and the Military/LEO section of the Blauer Tactical website has several CQB/close quarters oriented disks (which are only available to folks with secret decoder rings).
Last edited by rw4th; 8/19/2009 12:01am at .
<insert witty comment>
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