Thread: reverse grip sword
12/18/2009 5:25am, #71
It is true that for a long time most aliveness came solely from duels- which even if fought with training swords could cause serious injury. However updates in training gear such as padding on training weapons helped to at least increase the intensity of waza training in the dojo, and by the end of the Edo period styles of kenjutsu such as Shinkageryu, itto ryu (various), etc were known for practicing with shinai in sparring matches. This type of training (sometimes called shinai uchikomi keiko) was the forerunner of today's kendo shiai.
Unfortunately what happened overtime was that virtually all shinai sparring (a tool initially created for kenjutsu) got moved over to kendo, and even the kenjutsu styles which sparred started sticking to just forms . Thus today (including in Japan) you have a split between learning proper distance and timing versus good cutting and real sword handling. I've seen iaido taught alongside kendo a lot which helps rectify the problem, but for someone like me who doesn't have time to do both kendo AND kenjutsu it is somewhat of a bummer.
(that's the story I'm sticking to at least- any more knowledgeable kenjutsu guys please add/correct as you see fit)
Last edited by nightowl; 12/18/2009 6:01am at .
12/18/2009 9:37am, #72:Determined:
HTFU and join Bullshido on Fitocracy!
12/18/2009 5:49pm, #73
Guttmann, Allen and Thompson Lee. Japanese Sports: a History. University of Hawaii Press, 2001.
Kenji, Tomiki. “Martial Arts” Kodansha Encyclopedia of Japan.
Vol. 5. Tokyo: Kodansha Ltd, 1983.
Ozawa, Hiroshi. Kendo: The Definitive Guide.
Japan: Kodansha International Ltd, 1997
12/19/2009 4:45pm, #74
12/19/2009 5:16pm, #75
Kata, even in the koryu mindset, can only minimally teach distance and timing, because it is artificial set. It does not teach distance and timing as effectively as alive drilling.
12/19/2009 8:31pm, #76
I will readily agree that at high levels koryu two-man kata are better than many of the kata that you see in karate/kung fu/etc as far as helping towards a real duel. However as you mentioned sparring is unpredictable- kata are. Learning timing against an actively moving opponent whose attacks are unknown is far more readily achieved in kendo than in Kenjutsu. The old kenjutsuka knew this and invented the shinai, men, etc so that they could make up for what kata lacked.
Now most current kenjutsuka are not intrested in a practical martial art- they train for the preservation and experience of Japanese culture and traditional budo. On the other hand kendo offers an exciting sport that is now beyond being tied to the katana and is an essential part of the Japanese sport scene. Thus you have JSAs split into tradition (koryu) and modern application (the sport context of kendo).
Last edited by nightowl; 12/19/2009 9:05pm at .
12/20/2009 4:19am, #77
Has anyone stabbed themselves to death as a result of this thread ? If so can you post the pics.
K THX BAI"To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
12/20/2009 11:45am, #78
12/26/2009 2:29am, #79
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12/26/2009 10:59am, #80