Thread: Jujutsu or BJJ?
1/04/2010 8:54am, #1
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
- Ninjutsu ex-KMaga+Boxing
Jujutsu or BJJ?
Hello, I'm new here and would like some help with this decision.
First off, my experience is in Krav Maga but I want to swap RBSD for MA.
I've narrowed it down to a few styles that interest me.
I've read the forums for quite a while and noticed a bit of hate towards Wing Chun, which has sort of put me off it as a form of defence (correct me if my assumption is wrong). But there is a Wing Chun class near me and the instructor there was taught personally by Mr. 'Samuel Kowk' who is apparently a grandmaster and known to visit the school often himself.
Now I'm deciding between Jujutsu or BJJ. What I've gathered from my friend who practiced it a few years back and various *gasp* internet sources is that BJJ is about grappling your oponent to the floor, where all the magic happens (not sexually).
To me it seems a bit silly if in a street fight I take one guy down while his 2 homies are stomping my head! :new_scram
Is there striking and standing locks/throws in BJJ? It is practical self-defence (on da tough street yo)?
And JJ, I know there are strikes in this and from what I gather it is more rounded to everything.
If it helps the BJJ school near me is one of those Gracie Barra places.
Thanks for any help.
-Oh also I didn't know where to post this because it concerns a few styles. Thanks again.
1/04/2010 9:31am, #2
I take both. My JJ school spars full contact with kicks, punches throws, takedowns and groundwork (rudimentary compared to BJJ). My BJJ school concentrates on groundwork but does have throws, takedowns and standup "self defense" techniques. If I was just starting again and had to chose between the two I'd take BJJ. Good ground grappling skills are essential to becoming a well rounded fighter and the learning curve is so much longer than the curve for standup that it makes sense to prioritize it. Be more concerned about being able to finish one fight before you start worrying about finishing two or three.
1/04/2010 10:04am, #3
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Brooklyn, NY
- Judo, Tomiki Aikido, ??
If you've never done any grappling, which your comments suggest, spend a few months training in BJJ. Even if you do not stick with it what you learn about dealing with random body dynamics, close range control of another human being and fundamental anatomy will be invaluable down the line if you do find a decent Jujutsu school or if you take up any other martial art for that matter.
1/04/2010 10:44am, #4
Jujutsu or BJJ?
Quick story: I took a mean looking fall the other day on iced up cement. A friend who was with me said the first thing he thought when I hit the cement was *God please let him move*
I guess it was a nasty looking fall...my feet shot out from under me (I explained to him after wards it felt like the ghost of judo's past just threw the **** out of me).
I got right back up and was like "wow that was a good one" ...laughed it off and kept walking.
Now..my right arm was stinging so I figured I must have instictively slapped out with it, but my friend said it looked like I tuck my chin and exehaled also (ok..more like a suprised grunt). He seemed really amazed that I didn't even have the wind knocked out of me.
Now, I'm nearly 39 years old...I couldn't help but thank Kano for the gentle art!! Perfect example of how training comes in handy for things other than self-defense!!
1/04/2010 11:02am, #5
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Midlands, England
If you're worried about BJJ's lack of ability to take on 3 guys, go to any martial arts gym in the world wit 3 or 4 guys and try to take on their instructor. You stand a high chance of winning even with no training. Though several systems say they teach group combat if you're outnumbered your only option is who do you try to damage before you get hammered, presuming running is not an option.
BJJ is excellent for self defence as you learn to handle people actively trying to avoid what you're trying to do to them, just like a real fight. If you want stand up I'd go with Muay Thai, something a lot of BJJ schools teach anyway. Depending on the Trad Jujutsu school, you may learn lots of Kata and no sparring (bad) or a mix of all sorts. Jujutsu is less standardised for quality. BJJ and especially Gracie Barra are standardised, they are almost always excellent places to learn grappling. I'd recommend BJJ without hesitation. Go to a class and when you first roll, you'll understand why it works. Also Judo and wrestling are good too as if you're serious about selfe defence you need to learn in a resisted grappling environment. Expect to suck at first, everyone does.
So to summarise:
BJJ is a safer bet than "trad" JJ as bjj is pretty standardised . Jujutsu is a bit of a catch all term covering koryu jujutsu (old japanese arts) and Gendai Jujutsu (usually an amalgamation of some judo+something else)
BJJ does focus on groundwork, but not entirely.
BJJ is a good place to start grappling training, something you'll need for self defence
Gracie Barra schools are usually excellent even by BJJ standards (Yes i am biased)
1/04/2010 12:04pm, #6
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
- Judo & BJJ
As others have said, Jujutsu is too broad a category to meaningful. If you provided more information about the style and the instructor, we might be able to provide some additional feedback. It can mean almost anything from traditional styles (koryu) from pre-Modern Japan, Aikido-like arts, a bastardized version of Judo with strikes, or something Billy Bob made up by watching ninja movies to anything in between -- or more.
BJJ's awesome, but can be limited depending on where you go. GB schools are generally very good -- but will have an almost entirely sport focus (including, possibly, MMA). Although some GB schools do teach some decent standing grappling.
Have you considered Judo? From a practical self defense point of view, Judo >> BJJ IMHO simply because Judo teaches you how to chuck guys on their heads and stay standing. No striking, though.
Last edited by Res Judicata; 1/04/2010 12:12pm at .
1/04/2010 12:10pm, #7
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- W. Yorks, UK
Yeah it's funny about the breakfall thing.
I got pissed on Christmas Eve (as you do), slipped on the ice on my way home and fell flat on my face (I was wearing shoes instead of my boots, like the stupid jerkoff I am).
A friend of mine also did something similar... pissed, ice, flat on face.
Now tiddlywinks, guess which one of us broke his elbow and smashed his face in, and which one of us didn't even get a scratch?
1/04/2010 3:01pm, #8
" The reason elite level MMAists don't fight with aikido is the same reason elite level swimmers don't swim with their lips." - Virus
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
" I shocked him with my skills on the ice becuase Wing Chun is great for hockey fighting." - 'Sifu' Milt Wallace
"Besides, as you might already know (from Virus, for example) - there's only 1 wing chun and it sucks big time" - Tonuzaba
"Even when I'm promising mayhem and butt-chicanery, I'm generally posting with a smile on my face." - Sochin101
"That said, if he blocked my hip on a drop nage, I would extend my leg into a drop tai Otoshi and slam him so hard his parents would die." - MTripp
1/04/2010 3:09pm, #9
Judo if you want standing and ground, mix that in with something cheap and effective like boxing and you have a solid budget way of kicking ass
1/04/2010 3:37pm, #10
Ok, a few points:
1. Almost 99% of so called "Jujutsu" schools are Bullshido. That number is higher if they claim linage and ties to groups in Japan.
2. IF the goal is real world personal protection; things like pocket knives, pepper spray, and firearms are MUCH more effective than ANY UNARMED SYSTEM will ever be.
3. The current fad of "combatives" does not address real world issues like "use of force" and the real chance of a criminal or civil lawsuit later.
4. NO MARTIAL ART will be superior in a "real fight" to a martial sport. Kano made this point in 1886, and it keeps having to be made every few years to remind people. Currently BJJ/MMA are making the point.
5. ANONE who tells you their unarmed system will allow you to defeat a gang attack, is full of crap and you should find another school.
I have said in the past, and will continue to do so. Real world personal protection is a three phase approach...
First, take one of those model mugging/fast defense courses where you beat on the guy in the rubber suit.
Second, find out what personal protection devises are legal in your area, and learn how to use them.
Third, find a martial sport that appeals to you, and then train in it several times a week for exercise, fun, and skill development.
No magic, just hard work.