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  1. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/10/2010 10:41pm

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     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Research and technology in Judo...

    I wrote a thread on here recently asking for help in finding good places to research Judo and was directed to judoinfo.com, which has become one of only two sites I view on the web. I must've seen every technique video, animation and drawing on there in the space of about a week as well as read heaps of the articles.

    A while back I wrote, a little too arrogantly for some, that in the Basic Technique forum it would be good if people didn't use the Japanese name for techniques as I couldn't understand them. In a way, I'm glad that those techniques weren't explained in English because it meant I learnt through research rather than a simple explanation (which was, I see now, the reason for people's ire).

    I am lead to believe that Judo encourages individual pursuit of knowledge. Is this true? And to what extent would be acceptable?

    I also am trying to get together with other white belts (among some BJJ and MMA practitioners) in order to practice things we have learnt. To help with this I am using my iphone with links in an email for the techniques required to move to yellow belt to consult while practising, although I stick to only the things I have already been shown, so as not to second guess the instructor. Is this poor form or an acceptable use of technology?
  2. MMAMickey is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/11/2010 6:08am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're learning from video?
    How much judo experience do you have?

    tbh learning from videos is never great. I get ideas for combinations and occasionally counters from videos but if I try it and it doesn't work straight away I can ask the coach, if you're just gathering and throwing each other about you won't have that luxury. this has the potential to turn into bad technique or injury (for your training partners).

    ..that being said clearly I have no idea how good you or they are. So take my post with a pinch of salt
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
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  3. 2Many is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/11/2010 7:18am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    I am lead to believe that Judo encourages individual pursuit of knowledge. Is this true? And to what extent would be acceptable?
    I wouldn't put it like that. In my experience, Judo instructors and practitioners - as a whole - are far less paranoid about cross-training or receiving instruction from other teachers or clubs, than any other traditional martial art.

    It should be noted that the founder of Judo, Prof. Jigoro Kano, researched Sumo and Western wrestling techniques while learning Jujitsu, and even adopted the "fireman's carry" wrestling technique to defeat another student in randori (in Judo, the technique is known as Kata Guruma). So Judo has, since even before its inception, attracted what might be called "own research".

    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    I also am trying to get together with other white belts (among some BJJ and MMA practitioners) in order to practice things we have learnt. To help with this I am using my iphone with links in an email for the techniques required to move to yellow belt to consult while practising, although I stick to only the things I have already been shown, so as not to second guess the instructor. Is this poor form or an acceptable use of technology?
    As long as the techniques are practised safely, it should be fine. But keep in mind that Judo is a dangerous activity. You greatly increase the risk of injury if you do not practice under the supervision of a qualified instructor -- or at least a black belt. I personally would not risk it.

    Don't be afraid to ask your instructor about techniques you have seen elsewhere. I have trained under two senseis (simultaneously), and neither of them have ever discouraged me about techniques that I learned from the other, or from a book. Their responses have always been to provide guidance on how to do it properly.
  4. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/11/2010 8:37pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    MMAMickey, I am not learning from a video, I'm using it as reference for things already been shown by the instructor to assist mainly with memory.

    [quote/] I am using my iphone with links in an email for the techniques required to move to yellow belt to consult while practising, although I stick to only the things I have already been shown, so as not to second guess the instructor. [/quote]

    The free rolling I am doing with BJJ and MMAers, it will be newaza/ ground only and if some other judo guys get there early enough, they are more than welcome. I am pretty confident on the ground, I wouldn't do any throws or randori from the standing position just yet.

    Once again, I am NOT learning from the technology, I have quite a few hours of learning on mat time in BJJ, feel I need more rolling while having the opportunity before judo class to do so and I would not endanger myself or my training partners:
    Overly Cautious? - No BS MMA and Martial Arts

    I appreciate the feedback though.
  5. kenikim is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2010 2:00am


     Style: Christopher Hitchens-do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    I wrote a thread on here recently asking for help in finding good places to research Judo and was directed to judoinfo.com, which has become one of only two sites I view on the web. I must've seen every technique video, animation and drawing on there in the space of about a week as well as read heaps of the articles.

    A while back I wrote, a little too arrogantly for some, that in the Basic Technique forum it would be good if people didn't use the Japanese name for techniques as I couldn't understand them. In a way, I'm glad that those techniques weren't explained in English because it meant I learnt through research rather than a simple explanation (which was, I see now, the reason for people's ire).

    I am lead to believe that Judo encourages individual pursuit of knowledge. Is this true? And to what extent would be acceptable?

    I also am trying to get together with other white belts (among some BJJ and MMA practitioners) in order to practice things we have learnt. To help with this I am using my iphone with links in an email for the techniques required to move to yellow belt to consult while practising, although I stick to only the things I have already been shown, so as not to second guess the instructor. Is this poor form or an acceptable use of technology?

    dude, your title sucks... i was expecting something entirely different from your title alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    I wrote a thread on here recently asking for help in finding good places to research Judo and was directed to judoinfo.com, which has become one of only two sites I view on the web. I must've seen every technique video, animation and drawing on there in the space of about a week as well as read heaps of the articles.
    judoinfo.com is a great resource and there is no better single place to go for info on judo. the articles submitted on that site are very good. lot of the papers changed the way i look at judo. the videos and animations on that site once held great value to me, but i think the advant of youtube has made that section obsolete. but their greatest asset is their sister site, judoforum.com. there is a wealth of knowledge there. i believe it has actually outgrown and overshadowed judoinfo. only bbw is that it is frequented by judoka of ALL spectrum so be prepared to encounter all different kinds of viewpoints on judo. i don't post there anymore and only lurk occasionally, because my views on judo are too liberal and progressive for me to stomach the views of the purists.

    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    A while back I wrote, a little too arrogantly for some, that in the Basic Technique forum it would be good if people didn't use the Japanese name for techniques as I couldn't understand them. In a way, I'm glad that those techniques weren't explained in English because it meant I learnt through research rather than a simple explanation (which was, I see now, the reason for people's ire).
    you'd benefit from learning the japanese terms. while it won't neccessarily make you a better fighter, recognizing techniques is vital in any discipline.

    and are you saying that you weren't explained the techniques in english? for example, o soto gari was not explained as major outer reap? i've never met a sensei who didn't bother explaining the throw in english to an english speaker.....

    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    I also am trying to get together with other white belts (among some BJJ and MMA practitioners) in order to practice things we have learnt. To help with this I am using my iphone with links in an email for the techniques required to move to yellow belt to consult while practising, although I stick to only the things I have already been shown, so as not to second guess the instructor. Is this poor form or an acceptable use of technology?
    go nuts. some people would disagree, but if a group of consenting adults get together to to some damage to eachother, more power to you. just don't be a penis and sue if you break your ankle. would you benefit from having an experienced eye? sure, but that might not be always available to you, so who am i to stop you from wanting to train? there are problems though, as you are probably aware, you know,,, the classic blind leading the blind scenario,,,, but, as long as you are mixing your training with experienced fighters as well, i think you should be fine. but this is coming from a guy who thinks ukemi should not be taught the way it is in judo and someone who advocates randori in first practice, so take my advice as well with a grain.

    and do bring your iphone if the threat of theft is nil. and do bring your iphone if you are 100 percent certain that you'll know where your phone is at all times, and you can be sure that you and your training partners have spatial awareness to never come near the phone and you are certain that no one will ever be unceremoniously dumped on top of the phone.

    and do NOT bring your iphone if your sensei is there. do NOT consult your phone while in the presence of your sensei, even if he tells you that matthew morton is his master instructor.

    and i don't understand why you wouldn't just download a bunch of clips to study directly into the phone storage, instead of the email with links you mention.


    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    I am lead to believe that Judo encourages individual pursuit of knowledge. Is this true? And to what extent would be acceptable?
    you can substitute pretty much anything for the word 'Judo' in that first sentence and if the answer is false, walk away. this isn't judo specific in anyway whatsoever. anything you do in life should encourage you to individually pursue knowledge, if not, what's the fucking point?
  6. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/12/2010 5:38pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the new info kenikin. That being said I think it would benefit you to read a little closer next time.

    Do you know how to download to iPhone storage? I am technologically the equvalent of the remedial reading class.
  7. kenikim is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2010 11:01pm


     Style: Christopher Hitchens-do

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    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    Thanks for the new info kenikim. That being said I think it would benefit you to read a little closer next time.
    what do you mean? did i misinterpret your post?

    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    Do you know how to download to iPhone storage? I am technologically the equvalent of the remedial reading class.
    i don't know how the iPhone works specifically. i am quite experienced with Symbian OS phones, but not with the iPhone OS. Fantastic GUI on the iPhone, but the OS and the hardware have too many restrictions, so the iPhone does not interest me. but, i'd imagine the process of viewing video clips would be pretty much same for the iPhone as it is with Symbian or other smartphones. find the videos you need, compress it to smaller size if you need to, then transfer it to your phone and watch the clips. i'd imagine there's gotta be an app for it. there seems to be an app for everything for the iphone nowadays.
  8. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2010 1:22am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    I wrote a thread on here recently asking for help in finding good places to research Judo and was directed to judoinfo.com, which has become one of only two sites I view on the web. I must've seen every technique video, animation and drawing on there in the space of about a week as well as read heaps of the articles.
    Judoinfo is a good place. As someone pointed out previously, judoforum.com is very good, although you will need to use the advanced search function. There is a wealth of info to be found posted on topics ranging from history of judo to philosophy to explanations of techniques and principles. As a hint, use advance search filtered by name, using Cichorei Kano, PTNippon, Sam, NBK, Richard Riehl, on key words like kuzushi, kosen judo, tai sabaki, kumi kata, grip fighting, tsurikomi (or tsuri komi), and individual technique names.

    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    A while back I wrote, a little too arrogantly for some, that in the Basic Technique forum it would be good if people didn't use the Japanese name for techniques as I couldn't understand them. In a way, I'm glad that those techniques weren't explained in English because it meant I learnt through research rather than a simple explanation (which was, I see now, the reason for people's ire).
    Japanese is the technical language of Judo, so it is necessary to understand the Japanese as well as the translations of names and stuff into your native language. If you are truly very serious, you will study Japanese, but that is not a requirement, especially at your current level of judo. And you are correct in your last paragraph.

    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    I am lead to believe that Judo encourages individual pursuit of knowledge. Is this true? And to what extent would be acceptable?
    Yes, but you have to be careful about forming opinions about things you do not really understand. I speak from personal experience. At least, realize that your understanding will evolve with time, both physically and intellectually regarding Judo.

    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    I also am trying to get together with other white belts (among some BJJ and MMA practitioners) in order to practice things we have learnt. To help with this I am using my iphone with links in an email for the techniques required to move to yellow belt to consult while practising, although I stick to only the things I have already been shown, so as not to second guess the instructor. Is this poor form or an acceptable use of technology?
    Be very careful about practicing on your own with other inexperienced judoka or bjj or mma students. There is of course physical danger, as another poster noted. More importantly in my experience, that at your level, you basically do not know how to train at judo, or what to train, and neither do other beginners. I have seen so many judoka who developed bad habits almost impossible to break under "competent" judo sensei to know that a bunch of kyu grades training on their own is not the best idea in the world for long term development.

    You can watch stuff on youtube, but do you really know what you are looking at? What's important? How will you know what is a good example or not? There is a LOT garbage out there, and some real gems as well.

    Taking BJJ or MMA lessons from qualified instructors of course is your choice, but if you truly want to learn Judo, I suggest you focus on Judo. BJJ as a supplement for more newaza is OK if you have the time, but a reasonably good Judo sensei will give you plenty to do/think about in ne waza as well.

    Good luck in your training, whichever direction you decide to go. It's great that you are taking initiative and trying to find ways to get better, study on your own, and improve. Just be aware that it's difficult to train your self when you don't really know much about the art you want to learn.

    Ben Reinhardt
  9. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2010 10:34am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, it seems as though I wasn't clear earlier on. I am not learning anything from video clips, they are a reference for a sequence of individual techniques the judo sensei taught me. There is not much to it other than it is a list of things I have to know for the next grading and as such are really very basic, the reference helps only with the memory of the techniques needed, not how they are done.

    Secondly the Japanese terms are being learnt quite quickly because this site has a tendency to assume everyone knows what a o goshi or tomoe nage is and since I didn't in the past I had to look it up before I even began judo. I meant I was way ahead of my fellow noobs in knowing the terminology. I do intend to study Japanese and have intended to along side my other lingual pursuits.

    I took bjj last year. I am taking judo classes now as I have moved from the area where my old bjj club is. Outside of judo I am rolling with some guys, one of which is nearing his blue belt in bjj, the rest are amatuers. Once again, there is no throwing in these sessions.

    I do appreciate the info about the iPhone but I fear my technical disability will hinder reaching it's full potential.
  10. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2010 10:42am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think I assume people are on bullshido as much as I am. There are areas of my posting that need work. I reread this thread and realized without links to some of my post history some of what I wrote is ambiguous. For this I apologise and thank you for your input.
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