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  1. wingchunx2z is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2009 9:16am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Wingchunx2z, the beginning chunner, once again educates the other chunners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatality Dragon View Post
    I have a question. I am not trying to put it down or anything, I just want to know something.

    1.How would WT protect themself against such powerful kick of Muay Thai? I have never know anyone who can block kick from a Muay Thai with their arms so often without hurting themself seriously.

    2.What kind of defense do they use against take down?

    3.What kind of ground fighting do they do?

    If you say go and see for myself then you better buy a ticket and come to Las Vegas and show it to me (or pay for all expense and I will go there or whereever you want me to). I don't waste my time running to every school to check something that I readed on line out.

    "I would rather admit I am a lousy student than say I am the best, because once you think you are the best, there is no reason to continue learning."
    I can't speak for our friend here but I can answer that based on what wing chun as it was taugh to me will do.

    for starters to stop a muay thai kick aimed at the ribs or head:

    First notice that in wing chun the weight is on the back leg with the front leg free to rise at any time without transfering the weight. (similar to... muay thai! all you'd have to do is lift the hands from centerline to the sides of the head and extend teh arms and you have a mauy thai stance.) Now knowing this when alot fo mauy thia fighters do a kick they step out to an angle and begint o rotate thier hips before whipping their foot around and this hip power (as opponsed to the primarily knee snapping of tkd round house) is where it gets alot fo its power. There are 2 options here that work fine. the first is since theires no weight on the front leg when they initiate a rear roundhouse kick you go straight up teh centerline and kick them in the balls with your heel at teh same time you have both ahdns guardign the head and the ribs incase the kick still gets through but the attack on the pelvic region should neutralize alto fo the power and force them to stagger back or at least fall back some so you can advance.

    Interstingly enough I have seen some of my thai fighter freinds do this in sparring but instead of the balls they aim at the chest adn usually use what we in muay thai we call a "teep" of front leg push kick with the ball of your toe. the result is if you time it right adn the guy kicking is teeped as he kciks he falls back.. I have teste this af ew tiems with a sparring buddy but onyl a few becasue when we landed it even with a groin cup on and pullign some power it still dropped us both. Very simple very direct adn simply folloing the centerline a round hosue comes around so we beat it by goign up the center and going straight with the longest weapon.

    The other way tos top a thai kick of any rear leg roundhouse is to move in adn jam it. once you see the kick coming you simply arrow step into the kcik so it doesn't reach full velocity and chain punch the guy in the head. Personally I don't really liek this method. On the guys who liek to swing thier right arm behind them when they kick it will work sometimes but on the guy who guard their head when they kick you can get caught in a clench or knee sometimes. I have tried thier method several tiems in sparring with actual thai fighters and I can say it's not a high percetnage sucess rate on them It's worked every tiem in tkd and untrained freinds who imitate the ufc kicks though. So again for self defnce aghasint msot guys id say it works.

    To stop takedowns: Now this I've done extensive work on and I have worked our takedwon defenses with wrestlers. The first metrhod shown if if the wrestler shoots in from close distance liek he should you reach otu and break hsi neck as he comes in. (from my experince this has never once worked, they jsut keep driving and/or when they turn the corner my grips pops off and i go down.) Sifu has done this to be and while he was kind enough nto to break my neck I couldnt not conmtinue forward or trun the corner and there was quite a bit of pressure on my neck. So he can make it work but I can't. I dont use thie method since i peronally cant make it work.

    The next method is jamming. I love this, and I have done this on wrestlers and had the exact method used verified by a verteran of the ultimate fighter season 8. Basically you kick a leg back and lean forward on your frotn leg with a tan sao acting as an underhook adn a jum sao acting as a block in between thier neck and shouilder. once you stop the drive and if they try to tur teh corner you go with it wrap the blockign hand around their head and use your underhook to flip them over and then finish with a ebow strike ot the face and a striked to the groin before pretending to throw their balls away. Obviously I dont use the full technique every time, usually the forearm jam and underhook and then either stuff the head and back away or jam it.

    I have also foudn that hun sao or circling palming the head will redirectthe incoming shot and from that i can side kick the knee.

    There is a time for all these though, if the guys gets too close in or he gets my legs, it's time to sprawl, push my hips in, and stuff the head. I'd liek to get an under hook or a whizzr in if i can but if i cant ill sprawl and then elbow the back of the head. Wing chun can defend the takedown but only until they grab the hips at that point I consider it too late to use anything but wrestling to evade goign down.

    Wing chun groundfighitng is based on effecient striking. Personally my sifu has had answers for every bjj situation I've asked him from what I see Emin's system seems to incorporate as basic understnading of turkish wrestling to aid them uin getting position. Most wing chun schools anti grappling is bad or basic wrestling. Our geroundfighting is finding ways to strike from whaever psotiion we're in, ie: sifu can out strike me and reverse the position while under my mount.

    Bit logn windeed but hope that helps as you seem genuinely intersted in knowing what we do.
  2. cyril is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/05/2009 9:33am


     Style: No-Gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    Long winded WingChun rant
    Boy chunners talk a lot. Always with the theoretics...

    Still coming to the throwdown in Gainesville, Aug. 29th? I want to see these ideas and what you mean by "neck breaking" in person.
  3. wingchunx2z is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2009 9:41am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by realwingtsun View Post
    hi again,
    Grappling is the same as standing for me, if you try to wrestle me I dont grab back i punch and kick and knee and elbow with everything I can. I don't know how grapplers deal with this you all will have to enlighten me. I'll go spar some mma people when I get my first technician level until then I don't feel confident enough, fighting with technique and control is not easy. Someone fast, big, and powerful is still hard for me to deal with and my experience with range and timing during sparring is not where I'd like it as of yet.

    Take downs I'd have to hear how each individual take down is supposed to go, to be able to explain how to nullify it. Just hitting on the center and elbowing, kneeing, kicking would be my first answers its hard to get close to someone who does wing tsun. Even when falling to the ground I'm hitting and kicking never go quietly.

    I also have not trained antilocking techniques yet but most locks people try are two hands on one hand which results in getting hit by my other hand.
    K now see this is the problem, number one I'm peronally slightly offended that you assume the onyl REAL wing tsun is what you adn your sifu's deem worthy. not greatly but slightly. my sifu saiys its based on principles, if they follow the principles taught by yip man then it's correct regardless of who they learned it from.

    Secondly, thias statement. obviously your sifu has said at some point this is how to defned against a grappler trying to take you down?

    Now have you (as by your stement obviously not) or your sifu ebver studied a grappling art?

    See what you said here was you'll have to explain how each takedonw works for you to come up with a defence. do you understand how ridiculous that is? how can you possibly defend agasint a takedown if you don't even know how one works?!

    I can defend against a takedown. Do you know why? becasue I can take someone down. I can do a double leg, an outside single leg, an ankle pick, a hi C, a cross ankle, a sanda waist though, a hip toss, a sacrifice throw, a position sag ect. more importantly I know what to look for when a grappler wants to attack my legs and I know what criteria need to be in place for him to be able to take me down.

    I can tell you right now your strategy for attacking a grppler is gogint o get you taken down. wallking in punching and kicking down the center is not gogin to be effective. here's why: to a grppler a wing chun locomotive chain punching guy coming at them is either going to:

    A.) cut and angle and attack the lead leg

    B.) Drop levels and shoot in under your attack. Unless you knoe what to do once they grab you you're goign down. Even if you tried one of my defenses it probably still wouldnt work for you because you'd be too alte. the only reason I can make my kugn fu work on a grppler is becasue I've actualyl been shot on and shot in on people enough I can see one coming and have a few more seconds to react.

    I'm glad you're trying to defend wing chun, but you have to understand, this is why people aren't taking you seriously. If you rally want to know how to train agasint a boxer you need to find a boxer and see how he actually hits you. then when you do 2 man drills in wing chun you have an outline of what he willa ctually do. same with a wrestler and a BJJ fighter ect. if you jsut say well I'l do my wing chun and he will be devastated by my almighty chain punches no matter what the fool tries mwahahahaha, it's going to get you in trouble.
  4. wingchunx2z is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2009 9:42am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyril View Post
    Boy chunners talk a lot. Always with the theoretics...

    Still coming to the throwdown in Gainesville, Aug. 29th? I want to see these ideas and what you mean by "neck breaking" in person.
    Plnnin on it. Still dependant on what I'm doing in class, production studio 1 is a very demanding class. anmd if i get into pro2 its gonna be bad.. but if I am at all able to I'm hoping to make it talked to my sparring buddy from wign chun adn a few guys from BJj so I might have soem ppl.
  5. Whathappened is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2009 9:44am


     Style: Wing Chun Kuen

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    hurf durf
    Less talk more video to accompany the significant write up.
    Picture is worth a thousand words and all that.
  6. wingchunx2z is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2009 10:03am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Whathappened View Post
    Less talk more video to accompany the significant write up.
    Picture is worth a thousand words and all that.
    Y'know what?

    I apologize, I didn't see that the year was 2005 when the dude was psoting. I got a little irritated with his elitist attitude adn obvious ignorance of anyhting but wing chun.

    since you asked for video, here's some kick defenses adn what It is that I do.

    YouTube - Extreme Wing Chun Kung Fu Street Tactics Volume 2
  7. Craigypooh is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2009 10:19am


     Style: TSD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    reply to a really old post
    A quick tip for you. Before you reply to a post take a look at the date just above their name - if it's more than five years ago, then they're probably not going to read your reply.
  8. wingchunx2z is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2009 10:20am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Craigypooh View Post
    A quick tip for you. Before you reply to a post take a look at the date just above their name - if it's more than five years ago, then they're probably not going to read your reply.
    thanks I'll try to keep that in mind lol.
  9. Kambei Shimada is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/05/2009 10:22am


     Style: Sub-Grap/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    I can't speak for our friend here but I can answer that based on what wing chun as it was taugh to me will do.

    for starters to stop a muay thai kick aimed at the ribs or head:

    First notice that in wing chun the weight is on the back leg with the front leg free to rise at any time without transfering the weight. (similar to... muay thai! all you'd have to do is lift the hands from centerline to the sides of the head and extend teh arms and you have a mauy thai stance.) Now knowing this when alot fo mauy thia fighters do a kick they step out to an angle and begint o rotate thier hips before whipping their foot around and this hip power (as opponsed to the primarily knee snapping of tkd round house) is where it gets alot fo its power. There are 2 options here that work fine. the first is since theires no weight on the front leg when they initiate a rear roundhouse kick you go straight up teh centerline and kick them in the balls with your heel at teh same time you have both ahdns guardign the head and the ribs incase the kick still gets through but the attack on the pelvic region should neutralize alto fo the power and force them to stagger back or at least fall back some so you can advance.

    Interstingly enough I have seen some of my thai fighter freinds do this in sparring but instead of the balls they aim at the chest adn usually use what we in muay thai we call a "teep" of front leg push kick with the ball of your toe. the result is if you time it right adn the guy kicking is teeped as he kciks he falls back.. I have teste this af ew tiems with a sparring buddy but onyl a few becasue when we landed it even with a groin cup on and pullign some power it still dropped us both. Very simple very direct adn simply folloing the centerline a round hosue comes around so we beat it by goign up the center and going straight with the longest weapon.

    The other way tos top a thai kick of any rear leg roundhouse is to move in adn jam it. once you see the kick coming you simply arrow step into the kcik so it doesn't reach full velocity and chain punch the guy in the head. Personally I don't really liek this method. On the guys who liek to swing thier right arm behind them when they kick it will work sometimes but on the guy who guard their head when they kick you can get caught in a clench or knee sometimes. I have tried thier method several tiems in sparring with actual thai fighters and I can say it's not a high percetnage sucess rate on them It's worked every tiem in tkd and untrained freinds who imitate the ufc kicks though. So again for self defnce aghasint msot guys id say it works.

    To stop takedowns: Now this I've done extensive work on and I have worked our takedwon defenses with wrestlers. The first metrhod shown if if the wrestler shoots in from close distance liek he should you reach otu and break hsi neck as he comes in. (from my experince this has never once worked, they jsut keep driving and/or when they turn the corner my grips pops off and i go down.) Sifu has done this to be and while he was kind enough nto to break my neck I couldnt not conmtinue forward or trun the corner and there was quite a bit of pressure on my neck. So he can make it work but I can't. I dont use thie method since i peronally cant make it work.

    The next method is jamming. I love this, and I have done this on wrestlers and had the exact method used verified by a verteran of the ultimate fighter season 8. Basically you kick a leg back and lean forward on your frotn leg with a tan sao acting as an underhook adn a jum sao acting as a block in between thier neck and shouilder. once you stop the drive and if they try to tur teh corner you go with it wrap the blockign hand around their head and use your underhook to flip them over and then finish with a ebow strike ot the face and a striked to the groin before pretending to throw their balls away. Obviously I dont use the full technique every time, usually the forearm jam and underhook and then either stuff the head and back away or jam it.

    I have also foudn that hun sao or circling palming the head will redirectthe incoming shot and from that i can side kick the knee.

    There is a time for all these though, if the guys gets too close in or he gets my legs, it's time to sprawl, push my hips in, and stuff the head. I'd liek to get an under hook or a whizzr in if i can but if i cant ill sprawl and then elbow the back of the head. Wing chun can defend the takedown but only until they grab the hips at that point I consider it too late to use anything but wrestling to evade goign down.

    Wing chun groundfighitng is based on effecient striking. Personally my sifu has had answers for every bjj situation I've asked him from what I see Emin's system seems to incorporate as basic understnading of turkish wrestling to aid them uin getting position. Most wing chun schools anti grappling is bad or basic wrestling. Our geroundfighting is finding ways to strike from whaever psotiion we're in, ie: sifu can out strike me and reverse the position while under my mount.

    Bit logn windeed but hope that helps as you seem genuinely intersted in knowing what we do.
    Siigh... there soo much dross here and i dont have time to address it all.
    (if its quiet at work tomorrow i may have a go)

    Just out of interest How many years have you been learning Wing Chun for?

    I trained for Six years and from my experience I would say in almost every sentence of your above post you are totally WRONG.

    I would love to see you defend a takedown from a decent wrestler or even hold your own in stand up against someone with decent Muay Thai. If your in London come to a class with me at Londonshootfighters I'm confident it'll be a wake up call.
  10. Da Pope is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2009 10:24am


     Style: Nin Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How come the guy in red isnt fighting back?
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