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  1. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2009 5:23pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    The man who developed Judo ne waza

    While perusing Judoforum, I came across a judo instructional film from the 1950s. The instructor, Oda-sensei, was one of the pioneers of the ne waza-heavy Judo practiced prior to WWII at seven Japanese Universities. He died in 1955.

    Youre looking at the man who invented many of the judo groundwork techniques. He invented the triangle choke. (The triangle choke came into BJJ from Judo in the 1970s via Rolls Gracie)

    From this article: http://judoinfo.com/oda.htm

    "Although his Nage Waza was of the highest level, it was his concentration on Katame Waza that he became known for. As one of the more promising students of Jigoro Kano, Master Oda gradually changed Kanos view of the importance of Katame Waza. Master Oda felt that Katame Waza should be fifty-percent of judo since all fighting starts standing and ends on the ground.
    Kano granted him permission to carry on his research on this subject which subsequently became the Katame Waza of Judo as we know it today."


    Many of you have seen the Kosen judo videos that are up on youtube featuring Kimura and other notable. These long predate that set but show similar techniques.

    The video quality is poor, but there are still some fascinating techniques. Check out the Sakuraba-like cartwheel guard passes at about 7:50 in the first clip, for example. I was particularly impressed by how spry Oda was.
    Part 1
    YouTube - Tsunetane Oda - judo ne-waza 1 of 3 小田常胤

    Part 2
    YouTube - Tsunetane Oda - judo ne-waza 2 of 3


    Part 3
    YouTube - Tsunetane Oda - judo ne-waza 3 of 3
    Last edited by Res Judicata; 8/17/2009 5:33pm at . Reason: added triangle choke bit
  2. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2009 6:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I originally posted those on Judo Forum.

    We need to be cautious about stating that Oda Sensei was responsible for "creating" ne waza in Judo. Ne waza, and the larger subset of grappling "katame waza" were present in Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu Jujutsu, one of the two primary arts that Kano studied.

    There are other great threads at Judo Forum regarding Kosen rules Judo, and the development of Judo ne waza, and also regarding the influence of Fusen Ryu on the ne waza curriculum of Judo.

    Someone has posted a set of video that may be true Kosen rules Judo shiai. One of the members of the forum has actually competed in Kosen rules shiai, hopefully and/or other speakers of Japanese can chime in and identify what is going on.

    My guess, is that they are video of Kosen rules shiai, judging from the relaxed interpretation of skillful entry to ne waza, relaxation of gripping rules (although it looks like the videos may be from the 80s and 90s), and extended time in ne waza, plus the team nature of the events.

    Regards,

    Ben Reinhardt
  3. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2009 6:31pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you for that, Ben. History is one of those things that gets me going and I'm very grateful to have been able to see these videos.

    I think you may have misunderstood me. My understanding is that early in Judo, katame waza existed but Kano did not emphasize it because his personal art was primarily standing. Early judo texts and early judo practice had relatively little ground work.

    Later others, like Oda, had a passion for ground work and expanded the base of techniques that Judo inherented -- similar to the way judo standing techniques are older techniques modified through theory, randori and competition, or created and put through the same process (e.g harai goshi).

    I think its fair to say that Oday helped develop -- not create -- Judo groundwork. And he did create techniques, such as the triangle choke.

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