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  1. laevus is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2009 4:31pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Franklin-Belfort at 195, and What If:

    With the UFC announcing that Franklin/Henderson II is off in favor of Franklin/Belfort at the 195 catchweight, and in light of Franklin's fight with Wanderlei also being at 195, the thoughts begin to turn over:

    The depth of talent at 205 is truly staggering. Even if it never happens, there is enough talent now to support another weight class, if it were wanted and necessary. I dont think anyone wants to see another boxing format, where every 3-5 pounds is another weight class, but what do people think the ideal number and division of weight classes would be?

    Keeping the 15 pound seperations could allow for 130, 145, 160, 175, 190, 205, and Heavyweight, but would result in minor changes to everything except Feather and Heavy.

    Preserving more of the present classes could look like 155, 170, 185, 200, 215, and Heavyweight, but pretty drastically alters Light-Heavy, AND would thin out the already shallow Heavyweight pool.

    Or just leave it all as is.
    What do people think the ideal number and breakdowns of weight class would be (Completely regardless of whether any of it ever gets changed)
  2. Hesperus is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/02/2009 2:04am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think the weight classes are dandy up to LHW. There needs to be a cruiserweight in there somewhere, maybe bumping the max for HW up a little bit, to 280 or so.
  3. laevus is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/02/2009 3:05am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hesperus View Post
    I think the weight classes are dandy up to LHW. There needs to be a cruiserweight in there somewhere, maybe bumping the max for HW up a little bit, to 280 or so.
    Where would you put the cutoff for cruiserweight?
    230 seems a popular number, any thoughts otherwise?

    Also, with Heavyweight being relatively shallow for the past several years, do you think a cruiserweight class would thin out the Heavies too badly? Part of the reason I see people talking about more smaller weight classes is the pure number of contenders at a few of the marquee classes (205 leaps to mind)
  4. Hesperus is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/02/2009 3:20am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like 230, mostly because it kinda fits the pattern of ranges between weightclasses:

    [...]
    145-\
    ........10
    155-<
    ........15
    170-<
    ........15
    185-<
    ........20
    205-<
    ........25
    230-/

    Sorry if that looks retarded, but I think you get the idea.

    I don't know enough about the natural weights and cutting abilities of the UFC's (or anyone else's) Middle-, Light Heavy-, and Heavyweight fighters or enough about the realities of scheduling cards and whatnot to make any educated guesses as to what the weights "should" be to maximize matchups, so I just stick to what I think is fair.

    Weight matters less up there, but it still matters. I think Heavyweight should cap at 255 and have a legit Superheavyweight division at 285 or 290. Keep in mind, this is in an ideal world with sufficient depth and breadth (no pun intended...) of talent. I think a lot of guys will still be able to hop around a bit between weightclasses, too.

    EDIT: Yes, I changed my mind from two posts ago.
  5. laevus is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2009 4:44am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hesperus View Post
    Weight matters less up there, but it still matters. I think Heavyweight should cap at 255 and have a legit Superheavyweight division at 285 or 290. Keep in mind, this is in an ideal world with sufficient depth and breadth (no pun intended...) of talent.
    It's the 'ideal world' part that kicks an otherwise perfectly fine idea in the teeth. Looking at the weigh ins of present Heavyweights, and noting that most of these don't cut weight to make 265...

    Lesnar: 265
    Sylvia: 263
    Carwin: 262
    Barnett: 255
    Herring: 250
    Hardonk: 245
    Gonzaga: 242
    Arlovski: 240
    Kongo: 240
    Mir: 240
    Nogueira: 240
    Velasquez: 240
    Dos Santos: 238
    Fedor: 230
    Couture: 220
    Cro Cop: 220

    Again, I know you'd specified 'in an ideal world', but presuming even a very modest cut of ten pounds to weigh in at 230, that leaves fewer than ten fighters who are even remotely relevant in the fight game today to occupy the division.

    I think the division which could best support some thinning out would be 205, but the liklihood of adjusting the weight classes diminishes the longer they continue as they are. Not that anything's wrong with how they are now, mind.. but still. If it were to be tweaked, the sooner the better.

    If anything, I start to like the idea of cutting off Light Heavy at 200, keeping a consistent 15 pounds between weight classes (apart from Bantam/Feather), and adding a new division at 215. That would- I *think* be more likely to draw up the larger Light Heavies, moreso than draw down any except the smallest Heavies.
  6. Hesperus is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/03/2009 5:01am

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    Give it a few years, I imagine MMA will start to steal some more of the huge athletic young men that would otherwise be headed to football or basketball.

    I still don't think anyone will come along who is a) worth caring about in an MMA bout and b) cannot cut to 290. HMC? Maybe?
  7. laevus is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2009 5:42am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hesperus View Post
    Give it a few years, I imagine MMA will start to steal some more of the huge athletic young men that would otherwise be headed to football or basketball.

    I still don't think anyone will come along who is a) worth caring about in an MMA bout and b) cannot cut to 290. HMC? Maybe?
    I'm very interested in seeing the next season of TUF for that very reason (larger athletes from other sports, even if its on the way out, rather than on their way into other sports as you mentioned). As for super-heavies, I share the skepticism. Even if the exception comes along who proves the rule, I just can't see there being enough talent out there to support a division on the same level of legitimacy as the present ones.
  8. bigstu31s is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2009 7:58am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think they should make 195lb LHW and 205lb Cruiser
    Also another divison at 145lb would make sense.

    I can see this happening sometime soon especially as they keep having these catchweight fights at 195
  9. v1y is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2009 10:59am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We need less weight classes, not more.

    Weight classes are supposed to exist because size ultimately is a factor. However when the #1 HW in the world is 230, it doesn't make much sense to say we need another weight class at 220/230.

    Now, if we reach a point where there are no relevant 220/230 lb fighters because they're all getting smoked by the bigger guys, then i'll be open to discussion about another weight class.
  10. Hesperus is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/03/2009 2:12pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigstu31s View Post
    Also another divison at 145lb would make sense.
    Featherweight and Featherweight II: Electric Boogaloo?
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