Brock vs. Fedor Arguement

**Odacon** · Posted On: 8/03/2009 6:21pm

Originally Posted by Sirc

By the way, it's not really known, but right before this fight, Fedor had been making a movie in Asia and sort of forgot about the fight until the very last minute, didn't train for it, and then flew in, weighed in, won, then went back to filming his movie.

WTF!?! Source?

**oldman34** · Posted On: 8/03/2009 6:34pm

Originally Posted by laevus

Again, the test of whether he could get Brock down is the big question, but hyperbole aside, to say Fedor's striking sucks in everyone of his fights is slightly ridiculous.

Comparable to Brock? No it doesnt suck, but to have vastly more XP than Brock they sure look close in skill level.

By contrast, lets look at Brock's last couple fights. He had nothing for Couture standing, and in the second Mir fight, Brock aknowledged being hurt by the half assed knee Frank threw at him.

Nothing for Randy standing? Are you aware of how that fight ended?
Take his being rocked comment as a try at humility. Thats all it is.

To say that Fedor could never in a million years put Brock off balance with his hands, and either by knockdown, or takedown put him on the ground on bottom? Lets be realistic. Brock is an excellent wrestler, whose size and athleticism make it a very bad night for anyone he can get on top of.

I think Fedor can knock him down with a well placed punch of course, but realise that Brock is a BIG guy who can take a hit.
I doubt that Fedor can put him on bottom. He might work his way there (on top) but I doubt he will start that way.

However, his stand up has looked mediocre at best in his fights to date and while he can still improve, Fedor has dominated more top level strikers than Brock has had fights.

True, Brock hasnt fought a "striker" but in all fairness, Fedor doesnt really qualify as a striker.
He has what, 7 wins out of 30 by KO/TKO? Thats as many as he has won by decision. More than twice that many wins by submission.

So about 25% of the time he is a "striker", and about 50% he is a submission grappler. The other 25% he cant finish either way.

Comparatively Brock has won 2 fights by KO/TKO. Thats about 50%. So by using the simple numbers Brock is a better striker/gnp guy. 25% were by submission. NONE have gone to the judges.

However, the numbers can be misleading. His one loss was by submission. His main winning strategy is not by submission which can lead one to believe that he isnt a grappler. Yet we must also take into account the TKO, where he used his wrestling skills to gain a dominant position to land the strikes.

Do I like Brock? Hel no, I hope he gets beat brainless. He is a classless loser and winner. I hope he goes back to wearing a singlet.

**han090** · Posted On: 8/03/2009 10:48pm

Originally Posted by oldman34

Comparable to Brock? No it doesnt suck, but to have vastly more XP than Brock they sure look close in skill level.

Nothing for Randy standing? Are you aware of how that fight ended?
Take his being rocked comment as a try at humility. Thats all it is.

True, Brock hasnt fought a "striker" but in all fairness, Fedor doesnt really qualify as a striker.
He has what, 7 wins out of 30 by KO/TKO? Thats as many as he has won by decision. More than twice that many wins by submission.

So about 25% of the time he is a "striker", and about 50% he is a submission grappler. The other 25% he cant finish either way.

Comparatively Brock has won 2 fights by KO/TKO. Thats about 50%. So by using the simple numbers Brock is a better striker/gnp guy. 25% were by submission. NONE have gone to the judges.

However, the numbers can be misleading. His one loss was by submission. His main winning strategy is not by submission which can lead one to believe that he isnt a grappler. Yet we must also take into account the TKO, where he used his wrestling skills to gain a dominant position to land the strikes.

Do I like Brock? Hel no, I hope he gets beat brainless. He is a classless loser and winner. I hope he goes back to wearing a singlet.

The idea of brock attempting humility is as laughable as comparing brock's and Lesnar's fight records, and coming out with those conclusions.

Brock's Couture knockout really had very little if anything to do with his striking ability.

And, I know I may not know much about striking, but it's how anyone could watch those slow mo videos of the Arlovski fight, and come out without a huge respect for his stand up is beyond me.

That said, others have stated his past lack of success in dealing with wrestlers.

**FLMKane** · Posted On: 8/04/2009 6:47am

Originally Posted by oldman34

I hope he goes back to wearing a singlet.

I hope Karellin comes out of retirement.

**oldman34** · Posted On: 8/04/2009 6:55am

Originally Posted by han090

The idea of brock attempting humility is as laughable as comparing brock's and Lesnar's fight records, and coming out with those conclusions.

I assume you mean Fedors and Brocks fight records right?
I was simply using their fight records as a way of clarifying which field of combat they choose to use in most of their fights.
The conclusions are simple to come to.

Brock has had four fights. 2 wins by KO/TKO. Thats 50%.
Fedor has had something like 32 fights, 7 wins by ko/tko, thats around 25%.

I am not sure how you couldnt come to the same conclusions. Its simple math.

Also, notice I said attempt at humility. ATTEMPT. He is about as humble as Kim Jong Il.

Brock's Couture knockout really had very little if anything to do with his striking ability.

What did it have to do with then? He punched Randy in the face. Thats a strike.

And, I know I may not know much about striking, but it's how anyone could watch those slow mo videos of the Arlovski fight, and come out without a huge respect for his stand up is beyond me.

I hope you mean Fedors, and I hope you dont mean that I have a huge respect for his (Fedors) stand up. I already said that he isnt a striker. I also never said I had any respect for either of thems striking.

That said, others have stated his past lack of success in dealing with wrestlers.

Who Brock or Fedor?

Do you know what each of the fighters in question look like? Your post wanders a bit.

**Cuchulain** · Posted On: 8/04/2009 7:25am

Originally Posted by oldman34

Comparatively Brock has won 2 fights by KO/TKO. Thats about 50%. So by using the simple numbers Brock is a better striker/gnp guy. 25% were by submission. NONE have gone to the judges.

His fight with Herring went to the judges.

p.s You can't analyse a fighter's strengths and weaknesses from 4 fights. You wouldn't ask 4 people their opinion on something and call it a survey.

**theotherserge** · Posted On: 8/04/2009 8:45am

Originally Posted by Odacon

WTF!?! Source?

Fedor's own coach, Voronov, publicly berated Fedor for losing his focus due to the movie. I don't know that it was "last minute" but the movie did get in the way of his training.

Heath Herring was wiped out by Fedor. There wasn't some decision or other to be made. That's GnP.

Brock has not fought on par with Fedor. However, I would worry about Hunt vs Fedor with elbows allowed. I would love to see that fight-I love both of those cats.

**Fighting Cephalopod** · Posted On: 8/04/2009 9:23am

Originally Posted by theotherserge

Heath Herring was wiped out by Fedor. There wasn't some decision or other to be made. That's GnP.

Heath Herring got stopped on cuts after reversing Fedor and ending the round on top of him in side control. Brock actually did more damage to Herring than Fedor did, breaking his orbital bone.

**theotherserge** · Posted On: 8/04/2009 9:36am

Originally Posted by Fighting Cephalopod

Heath Herring got stopped on cuts after reversing Fedor and ending the round on top of him in side control. Brock actually did more damage to Herring than Fedor did, breaking his orbital bone.

I see you point (ha!) But that is also the difference between the fight going the full time versus a doctor stoppage...which is how I see Mark Hunt winning vs Fedor in a fight that allows elbows.

I just don't think Brock's striking is very good, he doesn't put much behind it, its just that he's a giant roid-monster.

Another fight that will likely end all this Fedor/not-Fedor argument is the ADCC. I'm really looking forward to Fedor competing there, it would really tell us something about his approach to submissions on the ground.