Let me clarify something, it is the way I teach.
When I started learning Muay Thai my Ajahn would teach me one way and once I hit a higher level he would begin to change my technique. He would say "Ok you do it this way now, you are not a baby anymore".
My guess is that it is like refining your technique.
I agree and think that Muay Thai techniques are far more intricate and complicated than more people think. The technique is very specific.
I am not a Sensei so I have no clue how they teach.
I also disagree with saying anything about not learning how to punch from a Thai.
I think it comes down to your instructor's skills, and how well you learn.
I've seen some schools where the punches looked soooo wierd... but, the fighters were winning, the punches were landing.
Meh whatever works works.
That being said I do not believe that the boxing style of muay thai is more effective than traditional. Not to say it doesn't work or anything, I just dont like it as much.
I also think there is a difference in a Thai that uses his hands a lot vs a Thai that has actually injected boxing. Usually you can see the difference.
Good luck o your fights Ash! Hope to see you vs Amy, that would be great!
I just realized that on either side of my name is a happy face with a soother....and it's actively making sucking gestures.. haha
Definitely agree with this statement. There are those that have definitely done boxing specific training and those that simply have a focus on muaythai punching and there's definitely a noticeable difference. I don't know much about how non-boxing influenced punching in muaythai works but it's definitely still around (my one Thai muaythai trainer also happened to be on the Thai Olympic boxing team so probably wasn't too traditional Thai in his punching style).
Originally Posted by Kru J
Thanks Jen, hopefully my hand won't take too long to heal up so I can get this match happening soon :) Are you still actively fighting or just focusing on being a coach?
Originally Posted by Kru J
Just want to throw in my own two cents...or twenty.
Ignorance only begets ignorance
Firstly, there is a saying that I heard: In traditional Thaiboxing, the fighters punch NOT box.
They are different sports. This has nothing to do with which is better, and more importantly which makes Muaythai real. The FACT is that they have different philosophies behind the way they are done...just like any style of Martial Arts has a reason for teaching the way it does.
If you are a student of Muaythai that uses boxing style hands, just know that there is a traditional style that exists with regards to the punching. If you do not believe it simply research it, rather than claim anyone is talking out of their ass...and then looking ignorant yourself. Not a personal attack, just saying. The reality is that both exist.
The great thing about modern MA is that anyone can innovate and add to it. It's also given us the ability to decipher between real techniques and fakes with the vast resources we have now. The down side is it also gives a lot of people the impression (including myself at times) that they know everything or can teach. This is where the ignorance comes in.
With regards to John Wayne Parr...a great fighter. However, he himself went on K-1fans forum and admitted he lost that fight. You can search it. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't know how Muaythai is scored. It's sad because there are different sites that explain it clearly if you search it. To claim it was because of the Thai judging that Parr lossed is correct in a sense, however it was not because of bias but simply the sport.
Buakaw made an impressive win that night and its unfortunate that he is being robbed of that credit because people don't know the sport. Parr is an experienced and strong fighter who has fought long enough to know that he lossed...you might as well ask him why if you don't want to search his 3 paragraph exlanation on the internet. People need to wake up and start doing their homework. Even I don't know Thai judging perfectly, but I know enough at the moment and I'll keep learning for as long as I train.
In the end, Parr is definitely a great fighter and coach, but just because he teaches a certain way doesn't make it THE one way. He has his reasons for boxing, as does Jen for teaching the Traditional style (which she mentioned). It all comes back to what I said before:
They are different sports. This has nothing to do with which is better, and more importantly which makes Muaythai real. It is simply a preference.
Lastly: I just wanted to address the person who posted this thread. It's great that you have an interest in your training and it sounds like you mean nothing malicious, but I have a personal beef with the way you approached this.
Unless you are training everyday, whether it be something like shadowboxing or hitting a bag or visualizing on your off days, then you have no right to be going on the net and questioning a technique because it was "awkward". That just seems outright disrespectful to the instructor, and anyone in the sport who actually do work on their technique constantly. The fact that you've come here without approaching your teacher somewhere in the process is a little sketchy. You don't become an all star in a few months...at least not without both talent and constant work.
I'm a believer in Traditional MT...so I get a little passionate over this stuff. In the end, I just want to help educate the best I can.
Last edited by Ctang; 8/25/2009 10:19pm at .
Oh, wow, didn't mean for this thread to backfire so hard.
Sorry if I offended, or disrespected Kru, or you, Poochoi. That was not my intention at all. As I told Kru Jenypher in a PM, I owe my love of Martial Arts to Bullshido. I've been a member for 2 years (lurked for longer), and started training because of all the great information and encouragement I found here. This is my Martial Arts home. It's not an issue of who or what I trust more. Asking for Bullshido's opinion on a certain aspect of martial arts is like wanting the blessing of a parent on a career choice. A negative response would not have made me change my mind. It wouldn't make me stop training with Kru Jenypher. However, a positive response would put my mind at ease (which it did).
As I mentioned in the OP, the problem was not with the punch, but with me. I couldn't wrap my mind around it. Everyone else was doing it fine -- but my own (very limited) experience, neurology, and anatomy stood in the way of performing the proper technique. Not approaching Kru first was a combination of several things:
-The matter being trivial (Like I said, there's no way it would have discouraged me from continuing training)
-It was based on something subjective rather than objective
-I wanted Bullshido's approval ;)
-Lastly, I didn't want to look stupid in front of Kru. I train with long-term goals in mind. I didn't want to get off on the wrong foot with such a great instructor.
Also, I want to clarify... I said the technique was awkward for me, which ties into the whole subjective vs. objective thing. There are a million and one factors that could be the reason (like I said, neurological or physical) as to why it would be awkward for me. I was not trying to imply that it was a bad, or poor technique.
I didn't take the OP as being disrespectful, I think people have a tendency to overreact to what's being posted on the net. Asking your coach is always what you want to be doing, but asking for second opinions on technique is really not a bad idea at all as there are many different schools of thought, approaches, and perceptions on every technique. What I've learned about martial arts technique only comes in part from what I've been taught by my various coaches.
I've learned a lot from watching fights, instructional videos, listening to what other fighters have to say both in person and on the net about technique. It's not a threat or insult, as far as I'm concerned, to seek out opinions. I'd also like to point out that the question has made for an interesting technical discussion and even brought out a clarification on the technique from the instructor in question.
I think this thread is good as it is a topic that does need attention especially when things are changing soo much in Martial Arts in general.
There will always be preference and there will always be opinions.
I think the people like KidSpatula are great because they actually have the knowledge to educate rather than speculate. If I were a new student I would be lucky to have such people helping me in a non-bias environment.
I'm not upset about the post, I was upset at how it was done. Water under the bridge now and you, ProudClod have loads of potential that even your Poo Choi told me about after your first day.
Keep the thread going if you guys want to discuss this more in depth. I myself use another forum to ask certain questions as on it there are many top level coaches from all over the world that I can get opinions from.
Ash, Nah I'm not fighting anymore. I broke my leg in a Title fight back in 2006 and I started teaching since I couldn't train for a few months and then the coaching took off and the dreams of fighting slipped away. That being said I constantly itch to head back to the ring to see how much I could have improved over the years. I hope to fight again soon.
I live vicariously through people like you now!!! lol Hopefully I will see you at another event soon!!
It's not seeking out opinions I was a little (admittedly) worked up over. I have done that myself out of pure curiosity/interest. I too learn a ton off watching fights, videos and/or sparring.
I just think that running to the forums without even consulting your teacher for extra help says "impatience" rather than really wanting to learn the technique. Especially when your instructors often walk around the class to help, or even ask if anyone needs help often.
You also said "Should I continue learning this technique? Should I revert back to a boxing type punch?"...That again doesn't say anything but impatience to me.
It all applies even if the technique is awkward for just you. I'm not athletic. I spent a long time trying to get my body to do things...I shadow boxed every night to get my punches down. I've spent the better part of a year going back to basics just to make my kick better and stronger...and still am. I spent a long time bugging my teacher about what things I can do to improve my technique, and still do. Point is, it takes patience. Sorry if I came off as angry, but that's what I was trying to get across.
The help is there if you want it, and will always be as long as you are training. If it still sucks after a while, I mean, why not ask the forum if anyone punches that way.
Great thread, because it sheds light on a lot of things. I'm not upset or anything. I just got worked up over the traditional MT discussion, and the way things were handled. I tend to rant like a mofo. Like I said, it's good when one shows interest in what they are learning. Keep training hard.
In the end, if people are willing to learn and do proper research, that's the most important thing.
By the way, I'm not trying to judge you ProudClod. I'm just explaining why I reacted to the post the way I did. If you sincerely want to improve then nothing could be better for a student or teacher in any sport or art.
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