And nice explanations Ash!
I have yet to see you fight but I did see you at the TBA.
Would love to see you fight. My computer at home is crap so I cant watch video and this one at work blocks everything and anything :(
If your name was Sensei J instead of Kru J you would have people lining up to argue against this statement.
Originally Posted by Kru J
Jenypher Lanthier... I knew that name sounded familiar! Well it's cool to have you posting on Bullshido :) I was really disappointed to not have fought at the TBA and now I've gotta take some more time off because of a hairline fracture on my right hand but hopefully it won't be too long before I'm in the ring again (going to try and set up a match with Amy Davis as soon as I can get back in the ring).
Anyway, thanks for your clarifications on the specifics of your teaching. Because of stylistic differences in stances and a stronger focus on certain aspects of different techniques, it WILL change how punches are thrown even while the fundamentals of good punching remain in tact for the most part.
To Sang: Yes, I agree with you on boxers utilizing their reach the most effectively, however what she's talking about is different from simply extending your jabs and crosses. Fighters that specialize in elbows and knees will typically be "looser" with the hands and guard, throwing long range hooks and uppercuts, shoulders more open and square, and keeping the arms wider to flow more easily into clinch fighting. Tight boxing skills are obviously made use of by some exceptionally good fighters, but we're talking two different styles of fighting within the same sport. (not that you didn't already know this, just trying to clarify what Kru Jen was saying)
What I really don't think we should be getting into is what stylistic differences make for the strongest muaythai fighter, as (like was mentioned by Kru Jen) there are tons of different schools teaching with their own stylistic leanings, even within "traditional" muaythai and each fighter develops their own style based on what works for them.
Now when you're a bit of a newbie like the OP, sometimes it's best to just shut up and do what coach says :P
Who's stupider? The fool who made the mistake, or the fool who followed him?
Never learn punching technique from a Thai man. They don't know it. Simple as that.
This era we live in, the Thai men who're teachers right now grew up and learned in a world absent of western Boxing. They excelled in clinching and kicking, never in punching.
The gym I stay in, I've to teach Thais far more skilled fighters than me how to throw hooks properly, because they can't figure it themselves (not that all Thais are like that, of course, but their training is usually very isolatated and traditional; only moving on in nowadays).
That may have been the case 30 years ago, not so now.
There are some fucking scary pure boxers in Thailand now.
No. I think you'll find the standard combo in most gyms to be "One, two, lower gaurds" rather than keeping closed up.
Originally Posted by Sang
I know some Thais are awesome Boxers, I'm talking about the vast majority, but; and these are the guys forming the Kru population. Most of them don't know better punching.
Making a statement like "never learn punching from a thai man" is kind of a poor way to go about being a student. If you're going to learn muaythai from someone you should learn their whole game and don't be close minded about the idea that different approaches may work for you better. Boxers are better at punching than muaythai fighters as a general rule, however, boxers don't know jack about throwing a punch that leads into/defends an elbow or Thai clinch. Having the total skills of a muaythai fighter and being able to throw a picture perfect hook are not synonymous.
All that being said, I DO train with a boxing coach to perfect my hand skills, though you have to take all the things you learn and apply them to the style you develop for yourself. If you start thinking "oh this guy is a Thai so his opinions on punching technique are worthless" you're just cheating yourself out of learning a tried and true method of doing things.
TBH as an outsider when I learn a little about school's (sometimes individuals) stylistic preferences, or how they teach things, I find it interesting, because it's hard for us not to look at it all, even if we like it, as a homogeneous mass of MT. The adv. grappling subforum has a lot more discussions like that, but I don't feel compelled to **** up the discussions with my 1.5 yrs of Judo.
Originally Posted by KidSpatula
Well, it may seem quite a poor outlook, but it's true, mostly. It's just, in my experience, I've had many Thai teachers, and none of them were good punchers. They know it themselves, also; "The foreign man have very strong punch", you hear that a lot.
Originally Posted by KidSpatula
Changing the style of hook you do from what you may have been taught, to a more powerful, Boxing punch; it doesn't really effect the style much, only makes it better. I mean, the difference I'm talking about here is as small as the angle of your fist and how wide the angle of your elbow is. But that's small, but changes the power a lot, yet doesn't effect the overall strategy of the style.
Of course, you should never be arrogant to your teacher if he's a good teacher. Learn both ways, Thai and Western, see which one you like best.
There's a big difference you notice between the Western Muay Thai and the Thai Muay Thai, also. Even when you learn in Thailand from a Thai, they teach you a lot different than their Thai boys. When I train the pads, it's a lot more punching and a lot less kicking; simply trainer knows Westerners generally have powerful punch and good punch technique, so he tries to develop that more.
Of course, that isn't to say the Western style is better. Just pointing out there're very different styles floating around now. I've never ever actually seen a white man move like a Thai in the ring, whether he's winning or losing, regardless of if his trainer is Thai and he trains with Thais.
Qualifying it with "most" or "a lot of" is completely appropriate. We all know what the point you are making and I think we mostly agree. Most people on this board also agree that generalizations sound ignorant, in general (har har). Obviously you are above that so why make yourself appear ignorant? Especially right after someone from a traditional thai school posts (if he isn't thai to begin with). Rude if you ask me. Thats all I think Sang and some other people here are trying to point out.
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