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  1. galois is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2009 8:14pm


     Style: MT and judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula View Post
    the most technically awesome boxer ever
    That sounds like me.

    Seriously, thanks for the replies.
  2. scorchedearth is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2009 11:11am


     Style: muaythai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have always been taught the method that you are describing. Turn the fist over so that the thumb points down and the shoulder protects the chin. It does make for better strikes and I have found that my punches land properly without hurting my hands at all.
  3. marcusdbrutus is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/05/2009 3:22pm


     Style: MT, Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by scorchedearth View Post
    I have found that my punches land properly without hurting my hands at all.
    Phht. Punch harder.

    Seriously though, it doesn't matter how awesome your technique is. Punching pads is one thing, but smashing someone in their irregular-shaped face of varying density will always make your hands not feel nice. If you hurt your wrists though, you're definitely doing it wrong.

    Just wanted to clear that up if anyone was punching well, felt pain, read this and was like 'omg I suck'.

    Well, you still might suck. But it might not be your technique. Punching faces hurts. Just saying.

    But it's totally worth it.

    The end.
  4. scorchedearth is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2009 9:42am


     Style: muaythai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by marcusdbrutus View Post
    Phht. Punch harder.

    Seriously though, it doesn't matter how awesome your technique is. Punching pads is one thing, but smashing someone in their irregular-shaped face of varying density will always make your hands not feel nice. If you hurt your wrists though, you're definitely doing it wrong.
    Good point. I should have stated that my wrists don't hurt. When going hard on a set of punch mitts, my hands didn't feel too great afterward but my wrists did not feel strained.

    My technique may not be great however, it has improved judging by the fact that I don't hurt my fingers and knuckles the same way I did in the past.
  5. chi-conspiricy is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2009 11:49pm


     Style: Poor mma

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Same coach, different fighter. Reiterates the shoulder motion, but he doesn't seem to turn over completely this time. Also, no stepping with the jab? I've had two straight boxing coaches and one Muay Thai coach who would say otherwise.

    YouTube - Rival Boxing Training Tip #2 / The Jab
  6. Kru J is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2009 1:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey guys,

    Kru Jen here, the one my student was talking about who instructs them in Muay Thai at York.

    Let's clarify a few things before we move on:

    1- If you ever feel awkward or have trouble with any technique please ask your Instructor or an Assistant Instructor before coming on forums asking if they are 'correct'.

    2- Muay Thai is NOT boxing, the punches are totally different. I have done both and they have 2 completely different functions. It's almost like saying Rugby and Football are the same. They are not.

    Now, moving on.

    A muay Thai punch needs to be longer than a boxing punch. Without the reach you run the risk of getting hit with elbows or knees. In Muay Thai all punches are considered LONG range weapons. Short range weapons are reserved for elbows and knees.

    The majority of schools I have seen teach boxing punches and techniques and add elbows, knees and kicks to call it Muay Thai. They particularly fight K-1 style which is fine but know that there is in fact a difference between Traditional Muay Thai and Kickboxing.

    The punch.

    How I teach the punch. How I teach is centered around the abilities or lack thereof of the typical beginner student. Thus I break it down as..

    In your stance, the elbow lifts and as the punch heads towards the target it begins to corkscrew while the hips and rear foot turns simultaneously to support the punch. By the end of the punch the knuckles are turned down and the arm is straight. The body is perfectly straight and no leaning is occurring.

    Never have I ever said that the lower body is the same as boxing because it is NOT. The rear leg remains straight, not bent as boxing sometimes does. We do not cock the shoulder up to protect the chin although the chin should be kept low at all times.

    Also, keep in mind that just like kindergarten to middle school to high school, we all graduate so some of the techniques taught when you are a beginner are to fascilitate the movements at your level. As you get better the techniques advance and techniques slightly change. This may be where a difference is taking place.

    No one learned multiplication in kindergarten correct? Thus, we don't teach this way in Muay Thai either.

    I love all my students but this is a clear case of the student coming on and telling misinterpretations of my instruction. This is precisely why I suggest that any student who is unclear should consult the instructor before using the internet as their guide.

    The moral of the story is take your time, listen, learn and practice. Should you need further advice (and you are a student of mine) feel free to contact Ajahn Suchart.

    Boxing is not Muay Thai.

    P.S.- Ray Sefo along with my Kru Clifton Brown are the 2 new coaches for The Contender Asia 2 being filmed in Malasyia right now.

    That being said, if you are still in my class. Feel free to enjoy the painful push up drill you will endure in Saturday's class. ;)

    Thank you,
    Kru Jen
  7. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2009 2:48pm


     Style: MMA, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kru J View Post
    Hey guys,

    Kru Jen here, the one my student was talking about who instructs them in Muay Thai at York.

    Let's clarify a few things before we move on:

    1- If you ever feel awkward or have trouble with any technique please ask your Instructor or an Assistant Instructor before coming on forums asking if they are 'correct'.
    Definitely a good idea.

    2- Muay Thai is NOT boxing, the punches are totally different. I have done both and they have 2 completely different functions. It's almost like saying Rugby and Football are the same. They are not.
    The punches are not totally different, biomechanics do not just change because the ruleset becomes broader.

    A muay Thai punch needs to be longer than a boxing punch. Without the reach you run the risk of getting hit with elbows or knees. In Muay Thai all punches are considered LONG range weapons. Short range weapons are reserved for elbows and knees.
    Come on now, you are talking out of your arse. Of course you run the risk of getting hit with knees when you are in boxing range, thats like saying you shouldn't throw kicks because you might get punched. It's fair to say you should use your optimal reach but guess what? Boxers do that best.

    Do I really have to link you 100's of videos of close range punches being used effectively in Muay Thai competitions?

    The majority of schools I have seen teach boxing punches and techniques and add elbows, knees and kicks to call it Muay Thai. They particularly fight K-1 style which is fine but know that there is in fact a difference between Traditional Muay Thai and Kickboxing.
    These same gyms which you would call 'fake' muay thai then go on to compete at a world level in Muay Thai. This is exactly how John Wayne Parr's classes are taught and his fighters do exceptionally well. Of course there is a difference between Muay Thai and kickboxing, unfortunately you are trying to differentiate between "traditional" muay thai and muay thai.

    Thank you for stopping by Jen.
  8. Kru J is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2009 9:53am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I teach what my Ajahn has taught me. I believe 100% in what he teaches me.

    I am not saying there is NO place for BOXING techniques in Muay Thai. I have seen plenty of fights where boxers prevailed over Traditional Thai boxers.

    Yes the mechanics are different. I am sorry to inform you. Albeit slight, they are different. Boxers can get long range but in doing that they tend to lean, or expose the lead leg which in Muay Thai could be dangerous. COULD BE, not is.

    We are discussing traditional Muay Thai not the broad sense of Muay Thai.
    I love the WMC slogan of One World, One Muay Thai, but let's be real, every camp varies on how/what they teach. I believe it is this way in most arts, or anything in life.

    This is not to say that more Thai's are not learning boxing either. The game is constantly changing.

    That being said, there is no arse talking here my friend and I will not argue with you any further. Perhaps 'reserved' was the incorrect term to use but typically if a boxer is going to come in and box then a good traditional fighter will counter with elbows and knees.

    I have 100% of respect for John Wayne Parr and his gym but IMHO he was doing much better when he was fighting a more traditional game and training with Thai's then the more boxing style he fights now.

    I was in Jamaica at Champions of Champions. Front row. The boxing didn't work much.

    In the end there are soo many varying techniques of Muay Thai. Way back Muay Thai used more elbows, knees rather than punches, however with the rise in popularity of Muay Thai we have seen more kickboxers and boxers come in and the game is shifting. The art is shifting.

    Again, I am teaching traditional Muay Thai. My Kru is also a world class fighter as are MANY Champions at my school and none have ever taken boxing. This is simply what I believe and what I teach.

    I am always up for friendly discussions on the topic but I was simply addressing my student and not attacking anyone.

    In the end what one person believes is what they believe. I never teach a 'right' or 'wrong' in my classes I simply demonstrate potential pro's and con's of everything.

    Regards,
    Jen
  9. Kru J is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2009 9:53am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh and I never meant to apply and "fake" Muay Thai as I stated there are just differences.
  10. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/21/2009 11:28am


     Style: MMA, Yoga

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kru J View Post
    I teach what my Ajahn has taught me. I believe 100% in what he teaches me.

    I am not saying there is NO place for BOXING techniques in Muay Thai. I have seen plenty of fights where boxers prevailed over Traditional Thai boxers.

    Yes the mechanics are different. I am sorry to inform you. Albeit slight, they are different. Boxers can get long range but in doing that they tend to lean, or expose the lead leg which in Muay Thai could be dangerous. COULD BE, not is.

    We are discussing traditional Muay Thai not the broad sense of Muay Thai.
    I love the WMC slogan of One World, One Muay Thai, but let's be real, every camp varies on how/what they teach. I believe it is this way in most arts, or anything in life.

    This is not to say that more Thai's are not learning boxing either. The game is constantly changing.

    That being said, there is no arse talking here my friend and I will not argue with you any further. Perhaps 'reserved' was the incorrect term to use but typically if a boxer is going to come in and box then a good traditional fighter will counter with elbows and knees.
    I agree with this post a lot more than your last one. Most Thais who are making it in the more well known stadiums have adopted a boxing guard and it is well past the stage where good boxing skills are necessary to be even an average Thai Boxer. Knees and elbows are definitely a good counter to punches, but so are punches for kicks right?

    Perhaps if you elaborate a bit more on what you think are the differences between Muay Thai and Boxing punches we could see eye to eye. Apart from the stance that is, you'll have no arguments from me that the boxing stance begs for leg kicks.

    I have 100% of respect for John Wayne Parr and his gym but IMHO he was doing much better when he was fighting a more traditional game and training with Thai's then the more boxing style he fights now.

    I was in Jamaica at Champions of Champions. Front row. The boxing didn't work much.
    Wow i'm really jellous! That would have been a great event to see live.

    I wouldn't really use that fight as an example of his training methods sucking though, he only lost that fight because of the Thai judges. Re-watch the fight and count up the points, its a clear cut win for JWP under the Muay Thai scoring system.

    In the end there are soo many varying techniques of Muay Thai. Way back Muay Thai used more elbows, knees rather than punches, however with the rise in popularity of Muay Thai we have seen more kickboxers and boxers come in and the game is shifting. The art is shifting.

    Again, I am teaching traditional Muay Thai. My Kru is also a world class fighter as are MANY Champions at my school and none have ever taken boxing. This is simply what I believe and what I teach.

    I am always up for friendly discussions on the topic but I was simply addressing my student and not attacking anyone.

    In the end what one person believes is what they believe. I never teach a 'right' or 'wrong' in my classes I simply demonstrate potential pro's and con's of everything.

    Regards,
    Jen
    No worries Jen, i understand where you are coming from now. It is perfectly fine to focus more on traditional aspects of MT in your gym such as the clinch, elbows and knees. We have many gyms like yours too which focus on those aspects (to their advantage sometimes).

    I just felt your post come across as an attack on what i see as Muay Thai and what my gym teaches. Boxing is a HUGE part of Muay Thai over here, much more so than say the clinch. The art has definitely been shifting over the last couple of decades which is a GOOD thing! It's just another aspect which we have to learn to be complete standup fighters.

    Stick around the forums if you get a chance, it would be good to have you around.
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