Traditional Muay Thai Punches?

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 8/01/2009 7:33pm

Originally Posted by galois

Sorry if this is a stupid question but does arm strength really have a completely negligible effect? I understand the desire not to have tension in the arm and that powerful punches come mainly from core rotation, but the tricep still has to contract to extend the arm. Can't more powerful triceps add a little extra force to the blow?

Arm strength is going to help whatever degree of pushing you're still doing when you punch. A "perfect" punch is 100% the piercing of the extended arm through the target with 0% push, but only some times during in a fight are you likely to land with a perfect punch so however hard you can push your punch is going to significantly help determine the power of all those less than perfect punches. Also keep in mind that the triceps role in extending the arm is minimal since your arm should be extending via the explosive energy coming from you shoulder rather than the work done by your arm.

**galois** · Posted On: 8/02/2009 6:50am

Originally Posted by KidSpatula

Arm strength is going to help whatever degree of pushing you're still doing when you punch...

...keep in mind that the triceps role in extending the arm is minimal since your arm should be extending via the explosive energy coming from you shoulder rather than the work done by your arm.

Is this completely true? If your tricep is too weak to extend the arm, through injury or some such, then no matter the snap of your shoulder your not going to punch someone. I'm not disputing the essential role of the shoulder (and core rotation) in powerful punching but surely(?) if your tricep extends the arm faster then there will be more momentum in the fist at the point of impact.

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 8/02/2009 8:48am

Originally Posted by galois

Is this completely true? If your tricep is too weak to extend the arm, through injury or some such, then no matter the snap of your shoulder your not going to punch someone. I'm not disputing the essential role of the shoulder (and core rotation) in powerful punching but surely(?) if your tricep extends the arm faster then there will be more momentum in the fist at the point of impact.

I suppose that if your triceps fell off you'd have a hard time throwing a punch, but your triceps do not make for the speed of your extended arm, that speed is dictated by how well you're able to keep your arm loose and let it flow. Your arm muscles play some role in the stabilizing of your arm upon impact, but the goal is to use as little of your arm muscles as possible on the actual "throwing" of the punch. If you try to extend your arm using your triceps rather than simply letting your fist fly it's going to be much slower and much more of an "arm punch". Using your triceps to extend your arm is called pushing.

**galois** · Posted On: 8/02/2009 8:59am

Ok, I accept what you're saying with regards to punching (thanks for the reply btw).

As a hypothetical question, if someone is restrained so they can't employ shoulder/body action in a punch would the tricep strength (or rather the ability of the tricep to accelerate the fist) then dictate how powerfully someone could strike with the fist? Is such a strike automatically a push, even if the arm accelerates very rapidly? Thanks.

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 8/02/2009 8:05pm

Originally Posted by galois

Sorry if this is a stupid question but does arm strength really have a completely negligible effect? I understand the desire not to have tension in the arm and that powerful punches come mainly from core rotation, but the tricep still has to contract to extend the arm. Can't more powerful triceps add a little extra force to the blow?

I'm opening a can of worms.
Working on your biceps and tris will give you more speed for pumping out consecutive punches. Its not that important in the entire scheme of things. If you wanna work on muscles for punching work on your back muscles and chest, but form and technique is 99%. Even then, its more muscular endurance than strength. Even if you work on chest, its really for hooks. And like I said, 99% form and technique.

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 8/02/2009 8:12pm

Originally Posted by galois

Ok, I accept what you're saying with regards to punching (thanks for the reply btw).

As a hypothetical question, if someone is restrained so they can't employ shoulder/body action in a punch would the tricep strength (or rather the ability of the tricep to accelerate the fist) then dictate how powerfully someone could strike with the fist? Is such a strike automatically a push, even if the arm accelerates very rapidly? Thanks.

IMO thats only going to matter in guard. Even then not that much. The only times I've felt that I was punching with my arm and arm strength helped was when I was on the ground and the rest of my body was tied up.
Example:

Your hypothetical question is basically saying that person can't punch for ****. I would recommend you stop thinking like this, since its distorting your perception of a good punch.

Broken down, its like this.
A properly thrown punch has the mass of all of the body parts involved. Foot, leg, waist, (entire core), shoulder, arms..

How heavy do you think your arm can get? If that arm's mass can come close to the proper puncher's entire one side of body +alpha, then sure, thats when your muscular strength will help.

I know its ke=mv^2 but seeing how punching speed differences at a human level are negligible and that the impact of a punch is not instantaneous, mass matters and thus technique is everything.

Not only that, when a series of nodes contract or expand together, the speed increases exponentially. Punching with proper technique is analogous to this.

**galois** · Posted On: 8/04/2009 9:12am

Fully agree that thinking about arm strength when punching will almost certainly detract from the power of the punch given how much more important it is to harness body weight.

I just figured that all other things being equal a guy with more tricep strength might have a sligt edge. I primarily want to believe this as I have somewhat greater tricep power than most fighters of my size ;)

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 8/04/2009 10:06am

Well if it makes you feel better, it helps pushing people away in a clinch, etc.

**MMAMickey** · Posted On: 8/04/2009 10:15am

gnp uses triceps more than standing.. driving through people's heads is great and fun.. when its you on top

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 8/04/2009 10:53am

Originally Posted by galois

Fully agree that thinking about arm strength when punching will almost certainly detract from the power of the punch given how much more important it is to harness body weight.

I just figured that all other things being equal a guy with more tricep strength might have a sligt edge. I primarily want to believe this as I have somewhat greater tricep power than most fighters of my size ;)

Like I said, since you're very often going to throw less than perfect punches (even as the most technically awesome boxer ever), how hard you can drive through with muscle strength will certainly be of some use. Fighting is a mess and even the most awesomely technical fighter is going to get a little sloppy and have to rely on strength for punching power to some degree.