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  1. SarahSunwalker is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2009 2:32am


     Style: 8 Weapons

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cannot learn Boxing and make Muay Thai work traditionally with Boxing punch.

    It is not the Boxing has inferior punch. The style has different theme. Boxing do not clinch. Boxing stand, forehead almost touching, they punch many times, range is close. Muay Thai never close range for punch, close range for clinch. Boxing punch now cannot be used; fighter will clinch with you.

    When stand to not clinch, must kick many times. Punch long, straight punch. Kick many times and punch at same distance. Cannot do hook at long distance. Muay Thai favor only Muay Thai; long punch used for combination with kick.

    Sometime you will clinch, but your opponent is not finished kicking you. He will step back, so uppercut his jaw. Maybe you want jaw to come off his head. Maybe you can hook in same situation. But only point is these are not used in combinations same like Boxing; they are used a single move when your opponent **** up have bad time.

    If you can stand in Muay Thai and use real Boxing, you are not using real Muay Thai. Maybe it will work when fight dog on street. Or work when fight dumb American in ring. But when fight Thai man who is not yet peaked and trains the old way, the away men never win.

    Many people come to Thailand from far away, they do not understand the style. Like Jackie say is have cup very full, cannot put any more in. There are only a few men come to Thailand from far away who can fight with good Thai fighters. I mean only a few. Not more than a handful.

    A lot of people from far away say my gym is punching not good. But when they want to fight us in the ring, I think they would not do well. My teacher is Champion of Thailand from a while ago. He was the best, and we learn the best way.

    Pay attention to the moves of jab, stright, kick; kick, straight; jab, stop, kick. Simple, but very easy to win.
  2. Kru J is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2009 9:25am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Very true. I agree.
  3. MMAMickey is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/28/2009 1:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SarahSunwalker View Post
    Cannot learn Boxing and make Muay Thai work traditionally with Boxing punch.

    It is not the Boxing has inferior punch. The style has different theme. Boxing do not clinch. Boxing stand, forehead almost touching, they punch many times, range is close. Muay Thai never close range for punch, close range for clinch. Boxing punch now cannot be used; fighter will clinch with you.
    Grabbing hold of someone is made alot harder by being punched in the face.
    .. Ricky Hatton style clinching is also pretty effective in muay thai in my experience

    Quote Originally Posted by SarahSunwalker View Post
    Sometime you will clinch, but your opponent is not finished kicking you. He will step back, so uppercut his jaw. Maybe you want jaw to come off his head. Maybe you can hook in same situation. But only point is these are not used in combinations same like Boxing; they are used a single move when your opponent **** up have bad time.
    There is no reason why the uppercut could not be followed up. Plus clinching blindly is asking for trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by SarahSunwalker View Post
    If you can stand in Muay Thai and use real Boxing, you are not using real Muay Thai. Maybe it will work when fight dog on street. Or work when fight dumb American in ring. But when fight Thai man who is not yet peaked and trains the old way, the away men never win.
    Erm.. racism and RAYMON DEKKERS

    Quote Originally Posted by SarahSunwalker View Post
    A lot of people from far away say my gym is punching not good. But when they want to fight us in the ring, I think they would not do well. My teacher is Champion of Thailand from a while ago. He was the best, and we learn the best way.
    Being good at fighting does not mean you are good at punching. so by saying your punching is 'not good' they may be right. The point remains that although thrown from a different stance, boxing punches do have a place in muay thai, and against kickers (I had very good kickers at my gym) good punching inside can (although granted not always) give them alot of trouble
  4. dwkfym is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/28/2009 7:00pm

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     PDS Rifles Style: Univ. Florida Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I asked my coach one day, and he said "who tought you that??"

    From my reading, people were split on the issue.
  5. Kru J is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2009 9:55pm

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     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry, taught you what?
  6. dwkfym is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/28/2009 10:28pm

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     PDS Rifles Style: Univ. Florida Kickboxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Turning fist all the way around. I've heard different answers from different boxing experts, but my current coach only turns palm down.
  7. Kru J is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2009 9:27am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You know what? I think maybe sometimes instructors teach or explain things exaggerated to beginners so that the body adapts to the movement and then as they get better the technique becomes more refined.

    I also think it is specific to traditional Muay Thai. Like and older form.

    I teach over exaggerated movements to beginners because if I dont I find they never learn how to put the right type of power behind the movements. Then once they get it we scale the technique back a bit. Sounds backwards but it seems to work because grasping the concept becomes difficult if the student can't physically do the motion.

    i.e. some students have very tight hips (usually men) so telling them to put the hip behind the punch usually doesn't work they just lean and use more arm power. But if I isolate the hip movement and tell them to turn the foot, the leg the hip and crank it over, they get it and do it. Once they understand the fundamental movement behind the hip turn then we can adjust it.

    I am constantly learning and growing as an instructor so my teaching is basically adapted to each student based on their particular needs.

    Proud Clod had an obvious background in striking but was not achieving the proper reach or pressing power for Muay Thai. So I told him what I told him and I am not sure but he looks fantastic now. Sometimes things just take time.

    Hope that helps.

    I have no idea if boxing trainers teach the turn down fist but it's typically a muay thai style punch. However, not every gym teaches that style of punch. What ever works! :)
  8. dwkfym is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/29/2009 10:06am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     PDS Rifles Style: Univ. Florida Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with you and I think that is a very good sentiment.
    I'm not an advanced striker in the face of the ranked amateurs on this forum and experienced instructors like you. I am still honing in basics, even though at the club I am at I would be considered an advanced practitioner and instructor. (college club)

    But I am still learning new things about basics that I thought I had honed down. For instance, power. I've always had adequate power for my upper body size/strength, and I thought it was "good enough."

    I started extracting more power from my punches since my recent IKF debut where my training went down the drain and I fought my opponent's fight, and not mine. Basically turned into a slugmatch. The solution is to stay more calm next fight and fight MY fight, but it would have certainly helped if I hit harder. So I've been extracting more power from my punches recently, and this evident from reactions of partners at padwork drills.

    In order to do this, I started exaggerating my leg movements. Conciously kicking off harder. Of course, this resulted in overcommitmenet and possible throwing out my elbow if I was hitting a real target. But as I repeated this motion, it became more natural to put even more leg and hip into my punches even though the range of motion of my leg and hip stayed the same as my original form. Basically, more "rooting" of the leg and hips into the ground within a more compact range of motion. I suck at english so I don't know how to explain it properly.

    And so in recent weeks I completely understand your sentiment in the above post now. The turning of the fist teaches to fully utilize the reach and helps align the bones of the arm/shoulder/torso to deliver a heavier, more solid strike. It helps complete and sharpen the alignment of a fighter's punch.

    The same can be achieved with turning the fist only 90 degrees palm down, but turnin the fists down makes this motion much more intuitive. So all other things being equal, someone who learns to punch with the fist down will learn to throw powerful punches faster than someone who learns in another way. Especially to someone who is just starting to learn how to punch. And you don't really lose out on anything by turning the fist down, as long as it is taught carefully.

    So like you said, whatever works!
  9. Kru J is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2009 10:40am

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     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Great post.

    I think you explained everything very well.

    One of the natural elements that Muay Thai is connected to is the earth element.

    That means that all of our power is derived from the earth. We need to be rooted as you stated to generate that maximum power that Muay Thai boasts.

    On another note, I think it's fantastic that your mind is open enough to learn these small intricasies as it can only help you move foward.

    If I can ever be of any help, just pm me.
  10. MMAMickey is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/29/2009 11:28am

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     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwkfym View Post
    I started exaggerating my leg movements. Conciously kicking off harder.
    This is something neglected by many that I like to capitalise on.. I like to explosively push with my bag leg to power my hip around faster, hence I get alot more power when i'm stepping in. explosive exercises with the legs and core (barbell cleans) will help your punching power. Although your arms shouldn't really be the power in the punch your legs and hips and shoulders definitely are.
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