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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Solvalou View Post

    As for multiple opponents and weapons, here's how to deal with that:

    1. Eat a lot of liquorice and cashews. And I mean a lot.

    2. Don't wear underwear.

    3. Wear those male stripper pants with the velcro that can be torn off easily.

    4. When someone attacks, tear the pants off and immediately start running. The mixture of fear, liquorice and cashews will make you diarrhoea massively. Your attackers will slip on the diarrhoea and be disgusted, thereby stopping their chase.

    5. You can then go home happy in the knowledge that your dignity is still intact.
    ROFL, thats what I call dirty tactics.

    With the street fight argument can Long distance running be considered practicing self defence.

  2. #42

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    Quote:

    You thought wrong. Those MAs tend to be more effective BECAUSE of their training intensity/aliveness. There are exceptions, obviously.

    And you're forgetting that BJJ is a TMA at its roots. As is judo. Those are two arts that typically have excellent, effective training methods that utilize realistic drilling and live sparring.

    Well something I notice is that TMA that focus solely (or nearly) on grappling tend not to attract derision (Judo, Jujitsu...). Its the striking arts that are the problem. I guess the main reason is that grappling is far easier to train with full resistance. Imagine kicking and punching full contact every karate class - there'd be far fewer karateka around, but the ones that would be around would be pretty formidable and karate would have a better reputation overall (whether those karateka could compare to MT or not is another story).

    Whoa there, pardner. Find me video of this elusive "full contact Wing Chun." I'm guessing that if it's actually decent-contact sparring, it looks just like kickboxing. (Disclaimer: I used to take Wing Chun and before that modified Wing Chun. No sparring in either.)

    And:

    I remember telling one noob that he couldn't throw hooks in Wing Chun because they didn't work in real life.

    I don't want to make this thread another WC basher (I'm actually guilty of starting one myself), but it seems its got a few "quality control" issues. All of the sparring I did at my WC was with contact (I still remember the knee to the midsection I took at my level 4 grading that nearly winded me. And it just kept coming).

    If they didn't teach hooks or any circular strikes, well ouch. At least train them so you can defend against them, so what if their not "in the curriculum". We were taught all the boxing strikes (however with WC footwork).
    or Karate,
    Like Kyokushin? Another widely respected TMA on these boards because... surprise: it typically has excellent, effective training methods that utilize realistic drilling and live sparring.

    I did say Kyokushin was a bad example, especially if Kyokushin guys compete in K-1. I did a bit of Goju myself and that's the type of karate I normally think of when I think of karate.

    You can get in shape, develop better self-esteem and discipline, make new friends, collect 8-foot tall trophies, indulge your inner japanophile, hang out with loose TKD chicks...

    What we need are "MMA chicks".

    They don't need skill if they are big and strong. Brute force always beats fenece

    Mmyeah I dunno, Royce Gracie seemed to do all right at some stage, back in the day. Keith Hackney held his own quite well also.

    Point of thread: let's coddle idiots.

    Hopefully not the only point.

    Here's another way of looking at it:

    While Abbot may have some skill, in some of his early fights he got owned by smaller (but still heavyweight - Maurice Smith and Pedro Rizzo I'm thinking of in particular) fighters with kicks to the thigh that he had no skill or reflexes to counter. I recall Rizzo also following with punches to the head (Ultimate Brazil). By that stage UFC had somewhat moved on from its early days of style vs style, but boy, you could see the two styles at play which made things pretty darn interesting. More specifically, "style vs no style", or "style vs street toughness". Putting guys selling themselves on "pure street toughness" into the octagon has made for some very interesting match ups, with the result being that we can observe a fight more akin to what would happen "on the street", than simply always pitting well trained BJJ/kickboxing fighters against each other, where all it basically proves is "who is the better athlete". And pitting Kung Fu trained martial artists against these street toughs may also provide some interesting match ups, as it wouldn't necessarily be predictable (as in, KF guy would get taken down and owned) if the street tough has no or limited ground game. Make sense?

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Artis Ferox View Post
    While Abbot may have some skill, in some of his early fights he got owned by smaller (but still heavyweight - Maurice Smith and Pedro Rizzo I'm thinking of in particular) fighters with kicks to the thigh that he had no skill or reflexes to counter. I recall Rizzo also following with punches to the head (Ultimate Brazil). By that stage UFC had somewhat moved on from its early days of style vs style, but boy, you could see the two styles at play which made things pretty darn interesting. More specifically, "style vs no style", or "style vs street toughness". Putting guys selling themselves on "pure street toughness" into the octagon has made for some very interesting match ups, with the result being that we can observe a fight more akin to what would happen "on the street", than simply always pitting well trained BJJ/kickboxing fighters against each other, where all it basically proves is "who is the better athlete". And pitting Kung Fu trained martial artists against these street toughs may also provide some interesting match ups, as it wouldn't necessarily be predictable (as in, KF guy would get taken down and owned) if the street tough has no or limited ground game. Make sense?
    So basically, you want Toughman competitions? Where non-skilled or barely skilled fighters wallop each other?

    No thanks.

    I'd thought we moved beyond that.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Artis Ferox View Post
    Quote:

    You thought wrong. Those MAs tend to be more effective BECAUSE of their training intensity/aliveness. There are exceptions, obviously.

    And you're forgetting that BJJ is a TMA at its roots. As is judo. Those are two arts that typically have excellent, effective training methods that utilize realistic drilling and live sparring.

    Well something I notice is that TMA that focus solely (or nearly) on grappling tend not to attract derision (Judo, Jujitsu...). Its the striking arts that are the problem. I guess the main reason is that grappling is far easier to train with full resistance. Imagine kicking and punching full contact every karate class - there'd be far fewer karateka around, but the ones that would be around would be pretty formidable and karate would have a better reputation overall (whether those karateka could compare to MT or not is another story).

    Whoa there, pardner. Find me video of this elusive "full contact Wing Chun." I'm guessing that if it's actually decent-contact sparring, it looks just like kickboxing. (Disclaimer: I used to take Wing Chun and before that modified Wing Chun. No sparring in either.)

    And:

    I remember telling one noob that he couldn't throw hooks in Wing Chun because they didn't work in real life.

    I don't want to make this thread another WC basher (I'm actually guilty of starting one myself), but it seems its got a few "quality control" issues. All of the sparring I did at my WC was with contact (I still remember the knee to the midsection I took at my level 4 grading that nearly winded me. And it just kept coming).

    If they didn't teach hooks or any circular strikes, well ouch. At least train them so you can defend against them, so what if their not "in the curriculum". We were taught all the boxing strikes (however with WC footwork).
    or Karate,
    Like Kyokushin? Another widely respected TMA on these boards because... surprise: it typically has excellent, effective training methods that utilize realistic drilling and live sparring.

    I did say Kyokushin was a bad example, especially if Kyokushin guys compete in K-1. I did a bit of Goju myself and that's the type of karate I normally think of when I think of karate.

    You can get in shape, develop better self-esteem and discipline, make new friends, collect 8-foot tall trophies, indulge your inner japanophile, hang out with loose TKD chicks...

    What we need are "MMA chicks".

    They don't need skill if they are big and strong. Brute force always beats fenece

    Mmyeah I dunno, Royce Gracie seemed to do all right at some stage, back in the day. Keith Hackney held his own quite well also.

    Point of thread: let's coddle idiots.

    Hopefully not the only point.

    Here's another way of looking at it:

    While Abbot may have some skill, in some of his early fights he got owned by smaller (but still heavyweight - Maurice Smith and Pedro Rizzo I'm thinking of in particular) fighters with kicks to the thigh that he had no skill or reflexes to counter. I recall Rizzo also following with punches to the head (Ultimate Brazil). By that stage UFC had somewhat moved on from its early days of style vs style, but boy, you could see the two styles at play which made things pretty darn interesting. More specifically, "style vs no style", or "style vs street toughness". Putting guys selling themselves on "pure street toughness" into the octagon has made for some very interesting match ups, with the result being that we can observe a fight more akin to what would happen "on the street", than simply always pitting well trained BJJ/kickboxing fighters against each other, where all it basically proves is "who is the better athlete". And pitting Kung Fu trained martial artists against these street toughs may also provide some interesting match ups, as it wouldn't necessarily be predictable (as in, KF guy would get taken down and owned) if the street tough has no or limited ground game. Make sense?
    You sparred that much that your remember a knee to the mid section that winded you? lol. Yeah sure you sparred

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by wingchundo View Post
    So basically, you want Toughman competitions? Where non-skilled or barely skilled fighters wallop each other?

    No thanks.

    I'd thought we moved beyond that.
    A non skilled tough guy would beat a Wing Chunner

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigstu31s View Post
    A non skilled tough guy would beat a Wing Chunner
    You know what, you're probably right. And I would LOVE to see that.

    I've changed my mind. Let's have an all Chun versus "street thug" competition. I might die of LULz.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artis Ferox View Post
    And pitting Kung Fu trained martial artists against these street toughs may also provide some interesting match ups, as it wouldn't necessarily be predictable (as in, KF guy would get taken down and owned) if the street tough has no or limited ground game. Make sense?
    YouTube - Tank Abbott

    Back in the day, nobody short of a NHB or shootfighting world champion could handle tank. Nobody. Except Ferrozo, the other pitfighter. Tank beat two of the fighters upon which Rickson built his rep (Duarte and Anjo) with ease.

    Train all you want, you're not beating Tank (or his brother), unless you see yourself beating someone like Mo Smith or Rizzo in their prime.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    Back in the day, nobody short of a NHB or shootfighting world champion could handle tank. Nobody. Except Ferrozo, the other pitfighter. Tank beat two of the fighters upon which Rickson built his rep (Duarte and Anjo) with ease.

    Train all you want, you're not beating Tank (or his brother), unless you see yourself beating someone like Mo Smith or Rizzo in their prime.
    Could you be more explicit as to what you mean here? Are you just saying that Tank was a tough bastard, or that he had an advantage because he had been in more actual fights than the highly skilled martial artists he was competing against, or am I missing the sarcasm, or...?

    Not trying to be a dick, I seriously am not understanding your point.

  9. #49
    Kambei Shimada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    YouTube - Tank Abbott

    Back in the day, nobody short of a NHB or shootfighting world champion could handle tank. Nobody. Except Ferrozo, the other pitfighter. Tank beat two of the fighters upon which Rickson built his rep (Duarte and Anjo) with ease.

    Train all you want, you're not beating Tank (or his brother), unless you see yourself beating someone like Mo Smith or Rizzo in their prime.
    There's a Tank Abbott in just about every town.

    Even a Tank in his 'Prime' (if such a thing existed) would get absolutely murdered in the modern UFC heavyweight Division.
    (which i should probably add is by far the weakest weight division)


    The Old Ufc's were entertaining No doubt but i would much rather see the sport reach higher and higher levels of professionalism and produce consistantly better athletes.

    Keep the brawling for British high streets at closing time.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by madrigan View Post
    Could you be more explicit as to what you mean here? Are you just saying that Tank was a tough bastard, or that he had an advantage because he had been in more actual fights than the highly skilled martial artists he was competing against, or am I missing the sarcasm, or...?

    Not trying to be a dick, I seriously am not understanding your point.
    My point is that the toughest guys from the street are a handfull for all but the elite of martial artists. At least under NHB rules.

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