7/28/2009 3:58pm, #21
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- Apr 2005
7/28/2009 7:04pm, #22
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- Jul 2009
7/28/2009 7:26pm, #23
kenny florian sean sherk ufc64Originally Posted by MrBadGuy
7/28/2009 8:11pm, #24
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- Washington State
I see a lot of successful Upa's and Shrimps in MMA. I also see a lot of failures. The problem is, because of the punches, a lot of the guys forget the fundamental aspects of performing the technique correctly and thereby, fail and performing the technique correctly.
Anytime you are on the bottom, you don't want to be flat. You want to be in the correct posture, slightly on your side and hip. Guard, Half Guard, under Side Control, Mount, etc...you get the idea. This is what you would consider the correct posture. Once there, you can then start to initiate your escapes. You will see a lot of people trying to Upa while flat on their backs and also without trapping the arm first (which, by the way, is very key to this working) in order to roll your opponent over. Also, the technique of this movement comes from your hips NOT your chest and stomach. Your opponent should have his weight on your hips and not on your stomach/chest. Again, this is correct posture. You won't accomplish much if you are trying to Upa with their weight on top of your stomach/chest except wear yourself out.
For this to work, see what I wrote above about the correct posture and having their weight on your hips and not your stomach/chest. This is something that was an Ah-Ha moment for me. You cant try to Shrimp while the person has their weight on your chest/stomach. Again, you will tire yourself out. Having their weight down on your hips means you have a shorter Shrimp distance to perform. The other thing (and teachers are somewhat guilty of teaching this) is assuming that one Shrimp is all it takes. It is going to take a lot of Shrimps to get from under someone. Expect this, understand this, and deal with it. That way, when you are mounted, you know to continue your Shrimps and don't stop Shrimping until you escape. You will see some guys Shrimp once and call it (and the match) a day.
Just like you use a Keylock to setup an Armbar you can use the Upa to setup the Shrimp and vise versa. Just as you sometimes have to chain your offense in order to get the submission, you have to chain your defense to get the escape. You can't just Upa or Shrimp, you have to do them together along with other various forms of mount escapes. Again, as mentioned above, you don't quit chaining your escapes together until you escape. Keep in mind, defending and escape usually leaves an opening for another escape. Understanding what escape defenses leave what openings allows you a higher chance of successfully chaining your escapes together to, well, escape.
7/29/2009 2:46am, #25
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- Jul 2009
Perhaps a lot of this is about simply a test of groundfighting/BJJ skill against skill.
Put simply: Say Foreman throws a jab, cross, hook, uppercut combination against Ali or whomever, and Ali weaves and slips so none of Foreman's punches connect, does that mean a jab, cross, hook, uppercut combination doesn't work and should never be used? Well, obviously not, daft example you can see, but same concept.
A skilled BJJ practitioner who is mounted might not necessarily be able to upa, etc due to being faced with another skilled BJJ practitoner with a very solid mount (not to mention the storm of punches).
Martial arts techniques can only work against someone with less skill in them than yourself (ALL else being equal, size, strength, no weapons involved, etc etc).
The fact that a top UFC fighter can't upa another probably isn't a very good indication, these days especially, of the usefulness of an upa. They could probably pull it off quite easily against an amateur. I suppose the question is, what chance that you'll be attacked on the street by a top UFC fighter? Not terribly likely I should imagine there's enough action to be had in the octagon already.
7/29/2009 10:28am, #26
I'd also like to add that most of the epic ground-and-pound from mount you see in MMA occurs after the guy on top has climbed the mount and his knees up in the other guys armpits. Trying to upa out of a high mount is a whole lot harder than trying to bump someone who's still sitting on your hips.
The more technical mount escapes tend to occur, from what I've watched, when the guy on bottom is able to keep the guy on top from climbing his mount and posturing up. Shinya Aoki vs. Eddie Alvarez would be a good example; Alvarez gets mount for a second, but Aoki shrimps out into a heel hook.