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  1. tao.jonez is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 1:18pm


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Pre-fight hype sells tickets.

    Douchebaggery and stupidity eventually hurt the sport.

    Regarding Ali / Lesnar comparison: I certainly don't think it's the same thing - not perfectly comparable, but Ali is a high profile example of a good type of hype. He talked **** in a way that made it acceptable as opposed to the venomous bile Lesnar spat.

    I was playing devil's advocate, not supporting Lesnar's actions. What I am getting at - is it just the way in which the hype is delivered? Is it the context and timing? Is it the person? I think it's all that stuff.

    Frankly Lesnar's frustration at the fans was probably justified - he had defended his title against a game opponent, and did a good job of it. He got boo'd. I'd be pissed too. But that was some low class **** he pulled with giving the crowd the finger, sponsor bashing, and so on. Lesnar's post fight interview just sucked - he was angry, sarcastic, disrespectful, and dumb. I don't care what anyone says, the champion SHOULD be a spokesman for the sport. He was a lame representative. Mir was humbled and said "back to the drawing board."

    On the other hand Torres fights with a sort of cold hatred and measured fury, but during the post fight interview I think "wow that guy has class". And I've seen a number of fights where the winner was boo'd and the winner and loser both spoke respectfully and turned the crowd around afterward (Jens Pulver's last couple fights).

    That is why I will put my money on fights and fighters I think deserve it. **** Lesnar. I know I can't kick his ass, but I refuse to support him or his sponsors. Torres on the other hand - I'll reach into my wallet for that dude.

    Sidebar - Does history allow "douchebaggery" to fade over time? Tyson is still considered an icon in the sport - based solely on his skill. Did his shitty antics with ears, girlfriends, managers etc. diminish the sport of boxing in the long run?
  2. Hesperus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 3:13pm

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     Style: Kano-Gracie

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    I'm no fan of Brock Lesnar, realize that, everyone.

    Also, realize, there is no such thing as bad hype. None. If people are paying to see him get beat, then they are still paying. If you want to take this time to cry about the basic nature of business, take your time now.

    I don't know about everybody else, but I'd be amazed if Brock managed to turn off his usual post-match antics. Yes, I think there's some carry-over between winning a legitimate sporting contest and finishing a physically demanding performance, and nobody is arguing against his behavior attracting attention.

    The only thing worse than negative attention is no attention, after all.

    If we take his athletic performance in a vacuum, we seal out damn near all his douchebaggery. He did the cowboy thing to Heath Herring, so what, he got punched in the head for it. We've a very small sample size to work with, but if you don't realize he started scary from an attribute perspective and is improving drastically on the ability side, you're crazy.
  3. Neo Sigma is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 4:38pm


     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Frankly Lesnar's frustration at the fans was probably justified - he had defended his title against a game opponent, and did a good job of it. He got boo'd. I'd be pissed too.
    Mir is from Vegas, isn't he? You don't usually see crowds cheer when their hometown fighter gets his face turned into raw hamburger.
  4. Zaii is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 7:08pm


     Style: crappling

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    tao.jonez - Comparing Lesnar to Ali is like comparing Fred Durst to Jimi Hendrix. They're worlds apart. Ali was more eloquent in his sleep than in Lesnar's finest moment (still haven't seen that yet). Sure, they've both managed to push the product, but that doesn't mean they have a single thing in common otherwise, especially in terms of overall presentation. I understand you were just posing a hypothetical, but it was not an ideal choice of setup.

    Hesperus - I'm not knocking his athletic potential. Dude is clearly a monster, but I've never seen any truly technical display of his fabled wrestling ability, even in his old strictly wrestling footage. It's possible I've just missed something entirely, but as of this point I'm just not seeing it. He is huge, hulk-strong, and knows how to apply that. My personal preferences about fighter styles aside, I do acknowledge his attributes.

    Unfortunately his athletic performance doesn't exist in a vacuum, nor is this the case for any other fighter. It's not some herculean feat to emit a modicum of sportsmanship, and it makes everything go over that much more smoothly.

    On a quasi-related note, what do you make of that off handed comment Machida mentioned about wanting to move up and face Lesnar if he can clear out 205?

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Pre-fight hype sells tickets.

    Douchebaggery and stupidity eventually hurt the sport.
    Thank you for stating succinctly what I've been floundering at this whole time.
  5. Hesperus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2009 4:15am

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     Style: Kano-Gracie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaii View Post
    Unfortunately his athletic performance doesn't exist in a vacuum
    That was in response to the "doucebaggery over time" bit, I think you can just exclude douchebaggery whenever you want.

    On a quasi-related note, what do you make of that off handed comment Machida mentioned about wanting to move up and face Lesnar if he can clear out 205?
    The sad reality is that he will probably realize what BJ Penn felt like.
  6. Hesperus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2009 4:22am

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     Style: Kano-Gracie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaii View Post
    What do you make of him charging the camera and literally drooling on himself while slurring incoherently post mir fight? You conveniently skipped addressing that.
    Have you ever worn a mouthpiece in your mother****ing LIFE?
  7. ADM is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2009 6:48am


     Style: Kyokushin Karate / BJJ

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    I have and I've never drooled like that, not even close.
  8. tao.jonez is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2009 9:42am


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaii View Post
    Comparing Lesnar to Ali is like comparing Fred Durst to Jimi Hendrix. They're worlds apart.
    I know I know - Just making a point about HOW you do a thing being as important as doing the thing itself. There's a way to create hype and excitement that is positive and professional (GSP anybody?). There is another way to do the same thing that makes fighters look like barbaric shitbags.

    There are villainesque characters in every sport, it's just unfortunate that the supposed crown jewel of MMA is in the clutches of such an asshole.
  9. Hesperus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2009 1:59pm

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     Style: Kano-Gracie

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADM View Post
    I have and I've never drooled like that, not even close.
    Then we differ. I've always had to take a moment to make sure the deluge of saliva stays in my mouth when I remove my mouthpiece.
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