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  1. Hesperus is offline
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    it's all vanity

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2009 4:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kano-Gracie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaii View Post
    I'm still confused as to how anyone can put on as much of a tough guy act as he has and then repeatedly whine like a little bitch about the referee not coming to his rescue quite in time for his liking in the original Mir fight.
    I'm still confused as to how anyone can put any stock into anything Brock says as part of promotional material.

    that constant vacant expression plastered on his face
    Now where have I seen one of those before?


    mongoloid
    Of or being a major human racial classification traditionally distinguished by physical characteristics such as yellowish-brown skin pigmentation, straight black hair, dark eyes with pronounced epicanthic folds, and prominent cheekbones and including peoples indigenous to central and eastern Asia?

    Look, if you only hate him because he used to be a professional wrestler, at least man the **** up to it.
  2. Hesperus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/26/2009 4:41pm

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     Style: Kano-Gracie

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    dubble post
  3. G-Off is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/26/2009 5:33pm


     Style: Ronin wannabe

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The thing I love about Miguel's interview is this:

    I'm not as big of a draw as Brock Lesnar, but I have more personality than him; I'm more interesting than he is.
    Has anyone ever listened to Miguel talk? He has all the vocal inflection of Keanu Reeves on quaaludes.
  4. Pojac is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 1:38am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Putting all issues of whether Lesnar is an asshole aside, I think Torres is dead wrong when it comes to the issue of compensation. Professional athletes are in the entertainment industry. When you're an entertainer, you're worth depends only on the tickets you can sell, the buys you can get on ppv, etc. Training hard, being a good fighter, even winning and defending championships: none of this has any inherent value. RIght now the UFC thinks more people will pay to see cards Lesnar is fighting on, and so they pay him more mioney. This is entirely appropriate. Torres is like a WNBA player complaining that she gets paid less than an NBA player for doing the "same job." The real job is to attract paying customers.
  5. Zaii is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 2:42am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm still confused as to how anyone can put any stock into anything Brock says as part of promotional material.
    Maybe he is pretending to be a douchebag instead of letting his inner douche shine through. In that case I have even less respect for him, because that means he's intelligent enough to act like he has some sense, but chooses not to.

    I understand pro wrestling. I get the soap opera dramatics and crowd work that comes along with it. Pro wrestling needs that because among other reasons, the fanbase knows that the outcomes are fixed, so they're not really paying to see a contest, they're paying to see a performance. It requires a certain amount of posturing and charisma to deliver entertainment.

    I am all for showmanship. Hell, my favorite fighter is Genki Sudo. But MMA is not pro wrestling, and all that heel heat bullshit needs to be checked at the door. Unlike pro wrestling, it -is- a competition, and that's the crux of it, and thus changes things fundamentally. Does heel heat sell tickets? You could make that argument. But that man-child drama is downright disrespectful and shows a serious lack of class and sportsmanship. Personally I don't enjoy the idea of that image being associated with MMA. Perhaps you do. You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but I disagree wholeheartedly.

    Even if it is an act, there's no excuse for carrying it on after a fight is already over.


    Now where have I seen one of those before?
    That does draw quite the similarity, right up until they open their mouths, and one speaks with some degree of articulation, while the other literally drools on camera. Tell me you didn't miss that after the #2 Mir fight?

    For the record I'm not a big Fedor fan and have no intention to ride his nuts in this circumstance or any other, but he does carry himself like a man instead of a chimp.

    Of or being a major human racial classification traditionally distinguished by physical characteristics such as yellowish-brown skin pigmentation, straight black hair, dark eyes with pronounced epicanthic folds, and prominent cheekbones and including peoples indigenous to central and eastern Asia?
    Look I'm trying to make a broad slurring statement here, don't come at me with "facts" and "definitions".

    Look, if you only hate him because he used to be a professional wrestler, at least man the **** up to it.
    Again, I enjoy pro wrestling. But if you're correct and the dude is in fact just selling a persona, he needs to realize that he's in a completely different environment with different context. No one gives a **** about disrespect in pro wrestling, because it's widely acknowledged that any and all banter is fake. That's not the case with MMA.

    Hype is one thing, living the hype is something else altogether.
  6. Hesperus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 3:42am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaii View Post
    Maybe he is pretending[...]sense, but chooses not to.
    If I ever make three million dollars for one fight, I promise you, I will not care at all how smart people think I am.

    Does heel heat sell tickets? You could make that argument.
    Ask Dana White to make that argument. Dana White could make that argument by snorting coke off multiple supermodels. He certainly has the funding.

    class and sportsmanship
    Care to name a sport without a dick/asshole/************ in it? Without a Floyd Mayweather, a Ron Artest, a Terrell Owens, a John McEnroe? You may disagree, but I think those names (and many more) are orders of magnitude bigger dicks/assholes/motherfuckers than Brock Lesnar. If Brock Lesnar is the worst thing to happen to the image of MMA (fuckin' cagefighting, do not forget) than we must thank our lucky stars, all 10^23 of them.

    Even if it is an act, there's no excuse for carrying it on after a fight is already over.
    When exactly do you think a canny fighter should start hyping (however he can) his next fight?

    a completely different environment with different[...]the case with MMA.
    Do you really think this is the first time a legitimate sportsperson has made a career from being a (to use the wrasslin' term) heel?
    Last edited by Hesperus; 7/27/2009 3:48am at .
  7. Kambei Shimada is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 4:40am


     Style: Sub-Grap/MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I really dont think Brock has shown a whole lot of technical wrestling skill in his MMA career so far at all.

    The fact of the matter is that he's the Heavyweight Champion and he has hardly had to work to get there. To make it worse the guy is already a multi millionaire and there's guys out there like Shane Carwin with an 11-0 record and still no title shot.
  8. Zaii is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 5:14am


     Style: crappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hesperus
    If I ever make three million dollars for one fight, I promise you, I will not care at all how smart people think I am.
    I know you have a crush on Brock since you two have so much in common. Why don't you just come out with it?

    Ask Dana White to make that argument. Dana White could make that argument by snorting coke off multiple supermodels. He certainly has the funding.
    Please read in context. I was agreeing with you. "You could make that argument", as in, "that's certainly a point that could be made".

    Care to name a sport without a dick/asshole/************ in it? Without a Floyd Mayweather, a Ron Artest, a Terrell Owens, a John McEnroe? You may disagree, but I think those names (and many more) are orders of magnitude bigger dicks/assholes/motherfuckers than Brock Lesnar. If Brock Lesnar is the worst thing to happen to the image of MMA (fuckin' cagefighting, do not forget) than we must thank our lucky stars, all 10^23 of them.
    Simply because **** is everywhere doesn't make it any less shitty.

    Although frankly I don't care remotely about any of those people with the exception of Mayweather, because I have zero interest in their goofy sports.

    I didn't call him the worst thing to happen to the image of MMA. Stop inserting words that aren't there. You're responding to claims I didn't make.

    When exactly do you think a canny fighter should start hyping (however he can) his next fight?
    In the time rolling up to the fight, in relevant opportunities for commentary and interviews. Frankly on the subject I think that tactic with people rushing into the cage to talk **** after someone's win is weak too.

    I'm not referring to the hype he and nearly everyone else does in the lead up, I'm referring to his post-fight antics, and him generally carrying himself like a fucking moron every time he's on film. There is no excuse for him getting in Mir's face after that fight. It has nothing to do with his next opponent and everything to do with him being the missing link, or worse, his voluntary abandonment of his dignity for that persona.

    What do you make of him charging the camera and literally drooling on himself while slurring incoherently post mir fight? You conveniently skipped addressing that.

    Do you really think this is the first time a legitimate sportsperson has made a career from being a (to use the wrasslin' term) heel?
    Again, just because a bunch of people have repeated a set of behaviors over a prolonged period of time doesn't automatically make those behaviors more respectable.
  9. tao.jonez is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 11:17am


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If it's so bad to talk **** before as well as after a fight, why is Muhammad Ali virtually worshipped to this day? That guy made up poems, called names, talked insane **** before, during, and after his fights, and famously stood over his downed opponent daring them to get up... (Clay/Liston 1965 Cover of Sports Illustrated). He made excuses when he lost, and had a huge ego in interviews when he won. He even resorted to racial remarks at times.

    Don't get me wrong, I think Ali really is among the greatest boxers in history. I don't think Lesnar is remotely the same caliber but frankly the HW division of the UFC doesn't have anyone who can stop him. So arguably Lesnar is the best right now. And his pre / post fight antics ARE sophomoric and in poor taste (the wife thing and the Coors thing were each inexcusable.)

    non-seqtur: BJ Penn licking blood ranks right up there in vulgarity, too.

    These guys are fighters, and they train hard both physically and mentally to prepare for their opponents. Some guys need to hate their opponent to get ready for a fight (Diaz brothers are prime examples). Some guys just study, prepare, and fight a more scientific game. I happen to like the technical fighters best.

    But I think it's unfair to dismiss Lesnar's well-deserved title just because he's a semen flavored douchebag. I dislike him for a whole plethora of reasons, not least of which is the fact that he just powers his way through anything - that's not why I watch fighting. I'd rather watch a bulldozer smash a building than watch Lesnar do anything. Nothing technical about what he does, it's a pure power game - but frankly it works. Well. Devastatingly well.

    So I'm with Miguel - market the technical small guys. But only pay them better if they get PPV buys and seats filled. Its the fight business after all. Personally I'd buy a PPV for Torres if he has a good opponent. I'm glad I don't have to, but I would. And I won't buy a Lesnar PPV until there's a contender who I think will kick his ass which I don't see right now. The market drives the fighters' pay, and I'm willing to let my $ be my voice.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 11:30am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Quote Originally Posted by tao.jonez View Post
    If it's so bad to talk **** before as well as after a fight, why is Muhammad Ali virtually worshipped to this day? That guy made up poems, called names, talked insane **** before, during, and after his fights, and famously stood over his downed opponent daring them to get up... (Clay/Liston 1965 Cover of Sports Illustrated). He made excuses when he lost, and had a huge ego in interviews when he won. He even resorted to racial remarks at times.
    Don't mix two different acts. He was a showman. Yes, he talked a ton of **** and boxers are still making millions because of it to this day.

    Thing is he kept it to the fighter for the most part IIRC.

    Brock came out with Mike Tyson level ****.


    Don't get me wrong, I think Ali really is among the greatest boxers in history. I don't think Lesnar is remotely the same caliber but frankly the HW division of the UFC doesn't have anyone who can stop him. So arguably Lesnar is the best right now. And his pre / post fight antics ARE sophomoric and in poor taste (the wife thing and the Coors thing were each inexcusable.)

    non-seqtur: BJ Penn licking blood ranks right up there in vulgarity, too.
    Mike Tyson biting ears. A certain Football player spitting in another players face.


    Pre-fight hype sells tickets.

    Douchebaggery and stupidity eventually hurt the sport.
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