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  1. ZenOfAnger is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2009 2:30pm


     Style: Judo+soon 2b bjj,boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Namsaram View Post
    As for judo being based on kuzushi and randori (true, but kuzushi is equilibrium management and randori is the contest itself, different conceptual matters), the same can be said about TKD in connection with proper target contact with correct timing (the TKD aspect comparable to Kuzushi) and sparring. So if you admit certain DEAD practices in Judo because it is not based on them, similar line of thinking may apply to TKD, provided that a decent amount of ALIVE training is done.

    Again, until you see the one-step I do in the way I do it, I believe you should at least keep respecful skepticism rather than full rejection for the unknown.
    You do not know what randori means in judo. Randori is not a contest, but practice to help both participants to improve upon what they know and can do. There is no "winning" in judo randori, only learning and understanding.
    Let your anger be like a monkey trapped inside a pinata; waiting inside, hoping that the children don't break through with the stick.

    -Master Tang (Kung Pow! Enter the Fist)

    A word to the wise ain't necessary. It's the stupid ones who need the advice.
    — Bill Cosby

    The believer is happy, the doubter wise.
    — Greek proverb

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicko1 View Post
    Martial Talk is not neutral, it's just neutered.
  2. Namsaram is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/29/2009 2:31pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Traditional TKD (exITF)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1.2, I donīt like misusing terms. I saw the video posted by DerAus and I am answering from that basis. If there is much more than that, I will be happy to learn.

    And on Okinawa, so now I confirm you are referring to sparring. Most well known authors do not mention sparring as fundamental. A part, yes. Fundamental, first time I hear that. Please tell me details about such schools (looking at your style let me tell you: isshin ryu is an interpretation by Shimabuku of Chotoku Kyan's teachings, and his new methods do not qualify as traditional from a strict standpoint).

    English is not my mother tongue, so you made me laugh about the handjob expression. Fist time I hear it. Now, believe me there is nothing laughable at someone reaching your parts. Does that make that sparring automatically worthless? It shows some type of realism. You are as fast judging as a Shotokan guy with a kizami-gyaku tsuki combination.
  3. Namsaram is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/29/2009 2:36pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Traditional TKD (exITF)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenOfAnger View Post
    You do not know what randori means in judo. Randori is not a contest, but practice to help both participants to improve upon what they know and can do. There is no "winning" in judo randori, only learning and understanding.
    I practiced judo for one year; I have the basic concept; I did not refer to winning. Neither victory nor semantics were the point here. I wrote contest, not competition. I am not a native English speaker, so please try to go to the meaning of the message in good faith, not focusing on my relative lack of language skills.
  4. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2009 2:41pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Namsaram View Post
    1.2, I donīt like misusing terms. I saw the video posted by DerAus and I am answering from that basis. If there is much more than that, I will be happy to learn.

    And on Okinawa, so now I confirm you are referring to sparring. Most well known authors do not mention sparring as fundamental. A part, yes. Fundamental, first time I hear that. Please tell me details about such schools (looking at your style let me tell you: isshin ryu is an interpretation by Shimabuku of Chotoku Kyan's teachings, and his new methods do not qualify as traditional from a strict standpoint).
    Sparring dojos? Choki Motobu's, for one. Chotoku Kyan's, for another. Chojun Miyagi's, for a third. Oops, that's all of Tatsuo's teachers.

    As for aliveness, one-steps don't have resistance/energy, timing, or motion/footwork. Period.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  5. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2009 2:43pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Namsaram View Post
    1.2, I donīt like misusing terms. I saw the video posted by DerAus and I am answering from that basis. If there is much more than that, I will be happy to learn.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-g6JTQDWNc

    Start with this.

    At no point are static drills, such as one-step sparring, necessary to training.:XXspam:
  6. ZenOfAnger is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2009 2:47pm


     Style: Judo+soon 2b bjj,boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-g6JTQDWNc

    Start with this.

    At no point are static drills, such as one-step sparring, necessary to training.:XXspam:
    Let me also add to the above a whole series from Mr. Thornton going in depth on the aliveness principle:

    Matt Thornton: Words of Wisdom. A.K.A How to Train Martial Arts - No BS Martial Arts
    Let your anger be like a monkey trapped inside a pinata; waiting inside, hoping that the children don't break through with the stick.

    -Master Tang (Kung Pow! Enter the Fist)

    A word to the wise ain't necessary. It's the stupid ones who need the advice.
    — Bill Cosby

    The believer is happy, the doubter wise.
    — Greek proverb

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicko1 View Post
    Martial Talk is not neutral, it's just neutered.
  7. Namsaram is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/29/2009 2:52pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Traditional TKD (exITF)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So about such dojos, I already mentioned bogu sparring and goju. Widely known data. And I donīt have anything against Tatsuo. But DerAus seemed to be referring to something older.
    As for one steps, for THAT step you need to respond with a technique with suitable footwork, timely, in proper angle. But I think I get your point (putting together body parts will not make up a living body). One steps delete the "when it will be launched" and "what will it be" factors, so are not realistic, but other factors remain to be deakt with in a safer environment.
  8. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2009 3:42pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Namsaram View Post
    So about such dojos, I already mentioned bogu sparring and goju. Widely known data. And I donīt have anything against Tatsuo. But DerAus seemed to be referring to something older.
    As for one steps, for THAT step you need to respond with a technique with suitable footwork, timely, in proper angle. But I think I get your point (putting together body parts will not make up a living body). One steps delete the "when it will be launched" and "what will it be" factors, so are not realistic, but other factors remain to be deakt with in a safer environment.
    It's more than that for both points.

    Okinawan sparring existed before bogu kumite.

    One-steps do not teach footwork in any useful sense, since the footwork is contrived and regimented. Nor does it teach timing, since the timing is contrived and regimented.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  9. Ajax is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2009 5:02pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tang Soo Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote=1point2;2180986]Okinawan sparring existed before bogu kumite...
    quote]

    prove it.

    While I didn't get to study Judo long. I did (as a noob) do drills that I would consider DEAD. As well as witness kodokan's kata, not exactly alive either.

    You can't LEARN "ideal" technique/ "proper" form in an Alive setting. I realise that these only exist in a sterile enviroment. However, one should know proper form, so the crap that you do end up using is at least rooted in the underlying principlesof good form.

    That being said, learning timing, foot work, and distance is only going to be done in an Alive setting.

    One-steps arn't the way to go, but "dead" training, esp. for the noobs, isn't allways wrong. You have to walk before you run, and stand before you walk. Dead practice with the goal of alive training and application isn't a total waste of time.

    Note: Keep in mind that this is from a guy who loves hyung:thebirdma.
  10. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2009 8:44pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote=Ajax;2181039]
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    Okinawan sparring existed before bogu kumite...
    quote]

    prove it.

    While I didn't get to study Judo long. I did (as a noob) do drills that I would consider DEAD. As well as witness kodokan's kata, not exactly alive either.

    You can't LEARN "ideal" technique/ "proper" form in an Alive setting. I realise that these only exist in a sterile enviroment. However, one should know proper form, so the crap that you do end up using is at least rooted in the underlying principlesof good form.

    That being said, learning timing, foot work, and distance is only going to be done in an Alive setting.

    One-steps arn't the way to go, but "dead" training, esp. for the noobs, isn't allways wrong. You have to walk before you run, and stand before you walk. Dead practice with the goal of alive training and application isn't a total waste of time.

    Note: Keep in mind that this is from a guy who loves hyung:thebirdma.
    Oops. http://chitoryu.com/chotoku_kyan.htm
    Oh for the love of Flying Spaghetti Monster, it's all over your face. Karate and Sparring - Historical - No BS Martial Arts

    Need more? Do you even practice karate, or have you ever, or have you ever studied Okinawan karate history?

    As for your ideas re: dead training being necessary...guh. DerAus and I have posted responses to your position at least six times today. I'm tired. Do some reading on the topic and realize you're misunderstanding the progression of alive training.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
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