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  1. Kilbourn is offline

    Featherweight

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    Sep 2008
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    Gaia
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    Posted On:
    7/24/2009 8:15pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo,TKD for funzies

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
    No ****, Sherlock.

    I recommend ceremonial disembowelment.
    In a thread where someone is asking if they're doing step-sparing right we can never be too sure. It's hard to tell the jokesters from people who seriously stupid.
  2. maofas is offline
    maofas's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/24/2009 8:19pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesteren View Post
    One more thing: I actually dont like our sparring. I feel i am learning to pull my techniques and they become powerless. Luckily i dont listen to my instructor 'bout that, but then again... nobody wants to spar me either.
    Sounds like the school sucks and you're wasting your time, but it also sounds like you're being a prick. If the instructor wants sparring to be a certain way, do it his way or leave for someplace that's more to your liking. Beating up on a bunch of softies who aren't throwing anything hard back at you is asymmetrical and makes you a bully, not a tough guy.

    Im thinking once i get my black belt i'll go train ju jitsu instead. Sounds like a good plan right?
    You should take MMA classes....at a TKD school.
  3. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/24/2009 8:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesteren View Post
    Actually its free for me. Yay
    Unless they're paying you to spend time there, it remains a waste of money.
  4. jfitzy is offline

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    Melbourne Australia
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    Posted On:
    7/26/2009 11:24pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ, TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you ignore all the bullshit you learn about blocking and punching (infact about anything from the waist up) most semi decent WTF TKD schools should give you a good grounding in how to kick at least.
    I might have had an unusual club tho ... but i see people learning how to kick at some "kick boxing" schools and shudder in sympathy for destroyed joints...
  5. DerAuslander is offline
    DerAuslander's Avatar

    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Baltimore, MD
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 12:25am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JFitzy, if you can't post on topic, shut the **** up.
  6. jfitzy is offline

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    Melbourne Australia
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 12:45am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ, TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I bow to your expertise on the matter
  7. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 1:00am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Smart.
  8. Namsaram is offline

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    Buenos Aires
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2009 6:15pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Traditional TKD (exITF)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi. I am new in town (26 years training, I am based in Buenos Aires, Argentina; I have taken classes with many reknowed Korean masters -whether I've learnt or not is not the point here).
    One step sparring is one of the aspects of TKD that can most easily be counterproductive to training. I believe it is the case in 90% of the schools, at least in Argentina and the US where I've been several times. But please note that sparring can also turn into a quite ridiculous exercise teaching you exactly the opposite of what true combat is about -most WTF videos will serve as proof-. No one would seriously propose to delete sparring out of training because it may be perverted to foster uncombative and distorted training habits: it would be wiser to identify such bad habits and do something about that, which is what serious TKD schools do.
    So now, for ONE step sparring (because two and three steps simply cannot be justified), the bad things are: 1) No-one will ever attack from a far, low stance with the same side of its stepping foot -homolateral motion is not how human beings move- unless you are in a Toshire Mifune movie; 2) Direct corkscrew punches are not frequently chosen as attacks by street guys; 3) Frozen position attacks are stupid.
    OK, BUT:
    One step sparring can be used in schools that do heavy drills in basics and forms a-la Shotokan or classical TKD, to explore the proper and the erroneous ways to use such basics. There are angles that make such technique work, while front facing, robot-like tempos or kneeling down to grab the ankle of the opponent for a Three stooges technique -one of the many pathetic examples I have witnessed- deserve lifetime expulsion from the martial arts.
    So my proposal is that instructors should put together basic techniques in the form of acceptably realistic responses, so that their students have them as models (with the acknowledged limitations of this type of exercise), and after a lot of repetition the underlying principles should become quite evident (stance and footwork, timing, approaching angle, target and weapon choice, takedown options, economy of motion, etc) and then students should be allowed to make up their own one-step responses and expose them to the critics of their instructor and seniors. All that will work with a knowledgeable instructor and within a traditional TKD curriculum. This should not take more than 5% of training time, of course. So it also depends on the frequency and dedication of theses martial artists. Otherwise, I will agree in tends to be a complete waste of time.
  9. DerAuslander is offline
    DerAuslander's Avatar

    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2009 8:36pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Namsaram View Post
    No one would seriously propose to delete sparring out of training because it may be perverted to foster uncombative and distorted training habits: it would be wiser to identify such bad habits and do something about that, which is what serious TKD schools do.
    You're close.


    Quote Originally Posted by Namsaram View Post
    OK, BUT:
    One step sparring can be used in schools that do heavy drills in basics and forms a-la Shotokan or classical TKD, to explore the proper and the erroneous ways to use such basics. There are angles that make such technique work, while front facing, robot-like tempos or kneeling down to grab the ankle of the opponent for a Three stooges technique -one of the many pathetic examples I have witnessed- deserve lifetime expulsion from the martial arts.
    So my proposal is that instructors should put together basic techniques in the form of acceptably realistic responses, so that their students have them as models (with the acknowledged limitations of this type of exercise), and after a lot of repetition the underlying principles should become quite evident (stance and footwork, timing, approaching angle, target and weapon choice, takedown options, economy of motion, etc) and then students should be allowed to make up their own one-step responses and expose them to the critics of their instructor and seniors. All that will work with a knowledgeable instructor and within a traditional TKD curriculum. This should not take more than 5% of training time, of course. So it also depends on the frequency and dedication of theses martial artists. Otherwise, I will agree in tends to be a complete waste of time.
    Yet so far away.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...50760833041053
  10. Namsaram is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/29/2009 9:34am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Traditional TKD (exITF)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Excuse me, DerAuslander, but while I agree on the importance of alive training (explained at an almost cartoon-like level when depicting dead training), I do not believe that all martial arts exercises should have such quality. In Judo you first learn your basic throws with a colaborative partner to learn proper angles, timing, body positioning etc and you also do randori (freestyle sparring) training. Both things will eventually merge into alive training, but there are some things you will never be able / allowed to carry to their full extent in class sparring. For the okinawan karate tradition (which is a major source of TKD, via Japanese Shotokan and Shudokan), sparring is a rather new thing, and traditional exercises were not as alive as the video guy would probably like. And although it has probably improved in its quality, karate did work prior to the 20th Century. On the other hand, there are many Korean styles (including Hapkido, KSW and tuk kong mu sul, which seems to be the picture you chose) that have many not-so-alive exercises, such as wrist grabs. That is not an argument, but it shows some respectable people do find such exercises useful. At my school my students and I get the chance to make contact with our knifehands to windpipes, knuckles to temple area, etc. in reasonably fast and natural combinations with good footwork in a manner that would otherwise be impossible. We also study how to perform jointlocks in a way sparring does not allow, but with some implicit fast phase. So to me, sparring-like activity is a very useful training resource, but it is not the paramount of training, at least if you practice Tae Kwon-Do (and not a personal hybrid with such name).
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