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  1. Fa Jing is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    324

    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 11:04pm


     Style: Brazilian JiuJitsu, Wing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    StarJumps, after reading (i cant get the videos to work) everything on your BMS wushu website i got to say and i know its been said before but its the man not the art, if it works for you your happy with the results then who am i to crap on it?
  2. wingchunx2z is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    785

    Posted On:
    7/31/2009 9:41pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by starjumps View Post
    As Promised see video here

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=igxJ0OZ3Y2I
    Thanks for showing the video. I have to say it looks very similar to what happens when any TMA fighter tries to spar for the first few times. I did see a few parries and redirected punches but more often then not this was accomplished through pure flailing of the arms. Not to discount the skill and the technique and it did after all stop a few punches.

    Now one time there was a decent sequence at 0:21 where he punched you blocked, he went under and gave a stiff jab to the ribs which you then rolled out adn jum sao'd his elbow down. he went down but then you both just kind of stood up. There are many things you can do from the arm barred position if you are moving. only when you stay in one place does this lock put you down. notice he was still on his knees. a perfect opportunity to have him shoot for your legs or go for an ankle pick to demonstrate your takedown defense, this would have proved more realistic and resistance and you could have shown another facet of your game. I can hionestly say that most of the takedowns you used in there do not resemble wing chun and while they were effective they were loosely similar to greco upper body wrestling.

    I'm re watching the video for each part of my post so I can accurately adress each part. watchign your clinch work and dirty boxing I can see that your clinch work doesn't resemble wing chun at all. You don't attempt to bridge and attain trapping range at all and I dont see any attempts to initiate a nice flowing combo like you showed in your intro video. Again not your fault, it's very difficult to do a pretty 5 hit combo on a resisting opponent.

    I also notice as the sparring intensity increases your hand position is relatively low and your head is exposed to hits. If your going to use a traditional method of redirecting punches as oppopsed to coverring it's best not to move around as much as you were and maintain a good rooted stance. if your gogin to move the boxing guard would have been more effective in that scenario.

    Notice Many times (such as 1:30) when you throw a kick the opponent is at least 3 feet away. this comes from a lack of understanding correct distance and timing the strike to hit an actual opponent. this is not neccesarrily a wing chun or BMS wushu skill so much as it is a vital basic of fighting in general. The only way to acquire this is to continue to spar adn work against a moving opponent that doesnt want to get hit, slowly you will improve your timing and distance control.

    Your ground fighting was also not semblant of wing chun or following any of the principles that I was taught regarding wing chun. the way you set your arm bar up at 1:57 was a very dangerous and high risk of escape method, when I do an arm bar in BJJ I'm told to keep as much presure and little space as possible when swinging the leg over and leanign back. you are actually standing above him without any visible control on the head to prevent him from simply turning into you and taking you down. I see alot fo your strikign methods seem to devolve into standard MMA type attacks as the intensity increases.



    As for your initial thread question I believe this vid is very different from what wing chun is supposed to look like in a real fight. However, unfortunately, it does look very similar to what most wing chun schools end up looking like when they spar. So my verdict on this is the vid certainly separates you from wing chun as a style but when it comes to actually applying the art you seem to resemble what most wign chun schools turn into.

    Having said all this though I appreciate that you made a video and put it up as promised and the work and time you put into it. I hope you and your student were able to get somethign out of it adn the responses you have and will receive concerning it.
  3. starjumps is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    29

    Posted On:
    8/01/2009 9:39am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: kung fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    Now one time there was a decent sequence at 0:21 where he punched you blocked, he went under and gave a stiff jab to the ribs which you then rolled out adn jum sao'd his elbow down. he went down but then you both just kind of stood up. There are many things you can do from the arm barred position if you are moving. only when you stay in one place does this lock put you down. notice he was still on his knees. a perfect opportunity to have him shoot for your legs or go for an ankle pick to demonstrate your takedown defense, this would have proved more realistic and resistance and you could have shown another facet of your game. I can hionestly say that most of the takedowns you used in there do not resemble wing chun and while they were effective they were loosely similar to greco upper body wrestling.

    That was actually a forearm strike just above the elbow. (as demonstrated afterwards). It was designed to break the elbow, so in reality I would breakaway and kick instead. I will not go to ground nor give him an opportunity to counter. Doesnít make this right or wrong just what I would do. The other option as you have described.





    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    Notice Many times (such as 1:30) when you throw a kick the opponent is at least 3 feet away. this comes from a lack of understanding correct distance and timing the strike to hit an actual opponent. this is not neccesarrily a wing chun or BMS wushu skill so much as it is a vital basic of fighting in general. The only way to acquire this is to continue to spar adn work against a moving opponent that doesnt want to get hit, slowly you will improve your timing and distance control.

    I cant see a kick at 1:30 but there was a fake kick to get a reaction if thatís what you mean.
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    Your ground fighting was also not semblant of wing chun or following any of the principles that I was taught regarding wing chun. the way you set your arm bar up at 1:57 was a very dangerous and high risk of escape method, when I do an arm bar in BJJ I'm told to keep as much presure and little space as possible when swinging the leg over and leanign back. you are actually standing above him without any visible control on the head to prevent him from simply turning into you and taking you down. I see alot fo your strikign methods seem to devolve into standard MMA type attacks as the intensity increases.
    I donít plan anything the arm bar was available so I took it. Other time I would use another technique. Donít be a slave to what you are taught be flexible and fluid and change as your opponent changes instead of only thinking what you can do, think what can you change and adapt and make it work. So will soon know if it doesnít work then change and adapt again.
    In other words sometime the wrong technique works and sometimes the right technique is ineffective.


    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    As for your initial thread question I believe this vid is very different from what wing chun is supposed to look like in a real fight. However, unfortunately, it does look very similar to what most wing chun schools end up looking like when they spar. So my verdict on this is the vid certainly separates you from wing chun as a style but when it comes to actually applying the art you seem to resemble what most wign chun schools turn into.

    Having said all this though I appreciate that you made a video and put it up as promised and the work and time you put into it. I hope you and your student were able to get somethign out of it adn the responses you have and will receive concerning it.




    The key is yes we are different to Wing Chun but most viewers missed the techniques or what I was doing was misunderstood.

    I have learnt a lot since starting the thread and I thank you for your all your comments
  4. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    6,526

    Posted On:
    8/09/2009 12:53pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    That little downward hacking movement with the back of the elbow. What's that supposed to do ?
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  5. wingchunx2z is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    785

    Posted On:
    8/09/2009 1:09pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    That little downward hacking movement with the back of the elbow. What's that supposed to do ?
    It's a small elbow spike, I usually aim it at the face or back of the head. Ilso it can be used to simultaneously counter a hook punch or high kick if it's closer in to the head and you bend with your body.
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