Jun Fan derail

**wingchunx2z** · Posted On: 7/20/2009 2:22pm

Originally Posted by starjumps

When I said
How can an art come from the same foundations but be so different?

Yes, we have all the things Chuns have but its how we apply it that’s different. It’s very difficult to explain in writing much easier to show but I’ll try.

The analogy would be like driving a truck or a BMW car. Both have wheels both have a steering wheel both have gears in fact they have a lot similarities yet they are very different.

In the same way we have a lot of similarities with the chuns ie
Sil Lim Tao
Sil Lim Tao Advance
Chum Kil
Bil Jee
Wooden Dummy techniques
Etc

But how we execute them is different our footwork is very different. Why its difficult to explain is because it’s not about one attack or one defense ie throw a punch and we will defend this way or that. It’s about continuity of movement. Whereas chuns they rely more on speed or singular counter movements

Singular Counter movements like
YouTube - wing chun federation serbia chi sao dril 1
YouTube - Pak Sao Drill

Speed to overcome
YouTube - Wing Tsun - Victor Gutierrez 2/6

these videos are typical of what chun’s general philosophy

whereas BMS philosophy would be to accepts that the first punch will not always get through and accept that you are going to be blocked be ready for your second, third fourth option. It’s a bit like chess you need to plan a few moves ahead.

As I said a bit difficult to explain I will get a video made to explain it better

Thats wing chun philosophy as well. Chi sao is all about what happens if the opponent blocks an attack. Then you move into the what next and trapping drills. Also from what you've decribed it sounds very similar to jun fan kung fu. This was bruce lee's modified wing chun based mixture of more mobile and flowing movement. The way you've outlined your system it looks like you do wing chun but you ry to spar with boxing guard and footwork.

Please look into jun fan kung fu and see if this looks similar. Also as a wing chun fighter myself I'd be bvery interested in seeing what makes BMS so different and encourage you to make your vids..

**starjumps** · Posted On: 7/20/2009 5:57pm

Originally Posted by lionknight

** so help me if by the 27th you have “technical difficulties” and can’t get the video up; I’m personally going to stop being nice to you ;P

lol its a promise. I will try to do it before but the only time i have to do it is over the weekend but what ever happens it will be done.

wingchunx2z how would you classify jun fan kung fu as Wing Chun? or is it different?

**wingchunx2z** · Posted On: 7/20/2009 8:49pm

Originally Posted by starjumps

lol its a promise. I will try to do it before but the only time i have to do it is over the weekend but what ever happens it will be done.

wingchunx2z how would you classify jun fan kung fu as Wing Chun? or is it different?

Jun fan is quite differnt. Personally I have found wing chun does not mesh with boxing at all. The principles clash horribly. Therer are a feew things I've found that match such as power generation on shifting, relaxing until the moment of impact then tensing, staying loose when moving, simultaneously countering (albeit quite differntly) but thats about it. I like my boxing. But I have tried many times to incorporate som of my head and core movement and circle on his outside leg to stay away from the powerhand into my wing chun. It doesnt work very well. Wing chun operates of a structured stance. We can be mbile if we need to but a mojority of it is based ont eh fact that the guy can dance around as much as he wants eventually he's gotta come to you. so even in sparring defensive fighters are taught that you CAN simply stand there in your stance and let them come to you. I personally like a more mix of agressive and defensive fighting style in my chun but I digress. Fencing footwork has even less application in wing chun one would ahve to almost completely abandon the core principles of wing chun to ahdere to fencing.

Bruce lee's jun fan kung fu was really a stage for him this was before he decided that there was no such thing as a style only differnt ways of expressing yourself. Personally I disagree and I do beleive ins tyles. but anyway, he was taking the best of the things he looked into but he wasn't quite mixing everything yet sop jun fan still has alot of his original ideas in it. It's main thing taken from wing chun is chi sao adn emphasis on trapping range. Again I find ti very difficult to apply trapping to boxing. proper trapping requites a rooted stance and cuttign an angle and driving in to supress the limb. you can't do that on your toes bouncing. the only time I've ever really gotten trapping done in boxing sparring was when we were int the pocket and I managed to stick with his jab as he retracted, the jab was a mid to long range move anyway so because it was cramped i coul jam it and stick before it got to far in. I've tried various kung fu thigns against ppl in boxing asoparring and most of the time i get punched int eh face for trying. Occasionally ill get somethign to work but its didficult when you have no structure behind your techniques.

In short, no jun fan kung fu is very differnt from wing chun. it is definitly a split off from it and some ideas remain but keep in mind its the product of a guy who trained for little more than 1/4 the system. Hope that clears up my views fro you adn I look forward to seeing your video. should you be curious to see mine it's already been thouroughly trashed by the ppl here who hate our wooden table but it is me and it is non compliant.

(this is not for the bullies to tell me what a n00b I am lol I already know, this is specefically for star to see for his own edification)
YouTube - wing chun sparring PART 1

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 7/21/2009 1:32am

Welcome to the CMA forum.

You thought I was bad in YMAS? He is going to produce a video. You are trying to explain Jun Fan and add more ideas so, we won't see if it is different or not.

Stop.

**wingchunx2z** · Posted On: 7/21/2009 4:39am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Welcome to the CMA forum.

You thought I was bad in YMAS? He is going to produce a video. You are trying to explain Jun Fan and add more ideas so, we won't see if it is different or not.

Stop.

he asked m,e a specefic question and i answered it, apparently you didn't like that question. Like yesterday I dont care what you like or approve of. and tommrow I still wont care. You can use your almighty admin skills all you want. Delete the post if you want i dont really care. All I was doing was answering a question that was asked of me.

**1point2** · Posted On: 7/21/2009 7:42am

Originally Posted by wingchunx2z

I look forward to seeing your video. should you be curious to see mine it's already been thouroughly trashed by the ppl here who hate our wooden table but it is me and it is non compliant.

(this is not for the bullies to tell me what a n00b I am lol I already know, this is specefically for star to see for his own edification)
YouTube - wing chun sparring PART 1

As I think we discussed previously, this video barely qualifies as sparring. It's somewhat non-compliant, sure, but not fully. How often does someone take a hit and keep going?

The table does not add anything except an automatic "reset" every few hits/seconds, when someone gets hit they turn away, half the techniques are done in a mock style instead of just doing them...

If we're going to produce this video, I think it's important to qualify it as not quite the embodiment of "non-compliant" or "sparring."

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 7/21/2009 8:13am

IMO Jun Fan is no more CMA than WHKD. Its American.

**Iga Ninjer** · Posted On: 7/21/2009 8:23am

I was thinking the same, too. Jun Fan Kung Fu has very little to do with CMA, despite its name. I guess any open minded and inquisitive person can recognise principles that work and principles that are simply flawed, regardless of their origins. Hence why Bruce Lee went beyond the cultural barrier and adopted principles that he believed worked in real fighting, such as fencing, boxing, etc. Those sort of stole most of the _ing _un from Jun Fan, which is why I don't think it can be considered as CMA, really.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 7/21/2009 11:22am

Have any of you fucking idiots ever actually studied Jun Fan?

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 7/21/2009 11:33am

Originally Posted by wingchunx2z

he asked m,e a specefic question and i answered it, apparently you didn't like that question.

No, you derailed a thread where someone was providing information about their school.

Here is part of your first post.

Please look into jun fan kung fu and see if this looks similar. Also as a wing chun fighter myself I'd be bvery interested in seeing what makes BMS so different and encourage you to make your vids..

He asked a question based on your derail, it was moved.

Like yesterday I dont care what you like or approve of. and tommrow I still wont care.

Then don't post in here.

You can use your almighty admin skills all you want. Delete the post if you want i dont really care.

Yeah you do care or else, you wouldn't be crying and being redundant. You have said "I don't care" 3 times now.

You do care.

All I was doing was answering a question that was asked of me.

No, you turned a thread, about BMS Wushu, into a Jun Fan discussion.

That is called a derail, quit crying and pay attention. Your choice.

What's worse, as usual, you talk about things you admittedly don't know.

Unacceptable.