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  1. #11
    Yoj's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK so what is your point? How do you think it differs?

  2. #12
    dwkfym's Avatar
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    It gets really confusing too.
    Kuksuldo
    Kuksulwon
    Kuksul Hapkido
    Kuk sul won hapkido

    I've heard all of them. My second HKD school was Hwalinkwan, I think they are somehow related to kuk sul something. Anyways, I learned that form a long time ago, the one in the youtube video. Hes skimping a lot of things. Stances too high at times, arm motions not complete, arm motions with no hips.. That guy is at best late blue belt (which comes after green in HKD). Or should be. Judging by his form. That pisses me off a bit!! But I can't say much, I can't perform any hyung at this point.

    I'm not sure about the questions being asked on this thread, but I have trained (for a "long" time) in two different "types" of HKD. Was that the sort of input requested?

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    OK so what is your point? How do you think it differs?
    I have no idea how it differs or even if it does differ. Like dwkfym said. It gets really confusing. I'm not trying to dis KSD. Frankly, I don't know enough about it to criticize it. I'm just confused. There are so many different Korean arts and it's hard to figure out which one teaches what, even within a given art. Where did it come from? Did Grandmaster Yang invent it or did he just rename Kuk Sool Won? Is it the same as KSW? if not, how does it differ? That's the kind of info I'm looking for.

  4. #14
    Yoj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackxpress View Post
    I have no idea how it differs or even if it does differ. Like dwkfym said. It gets really confusing. I'm not trying to dis KSD. Frankly, I don't know enough about it to criticize it. I'm just confused. There are so many different Korean arts and it's hard to figure out which one teaches what, even within a given art. Where did it come from? Did Grandmaster Yang invent it or did he just rename Kuk Sool Won? Is it the same as KSW? if not, how does it differ? That's the kind of info I'm looking for.

    Oh right, I can't answer directly, because I don't know, but what I can say is that the korean arts are highly fractious, and breakaways and splits are common. How else can you be the head cheese unless you are doing something different? My guess is that all KS* arts are pretty much the same with maybe some slight difference in emphasis or syllabus, and that the ones with hapkido have a hapkido influence. Most korean stuff seems to boil down to pretty much the same thing anyway, just rebadged and rehashed.

  5. #15

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    Tru dat. Op should be a good bully and take a few free classes to give us the scoop on this.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by shelbydeth View Post
    Tru dat. Op should be a good bully and take a few free classes to give us the scoop on this.
    Maybe so.

    Thing is.. It's not going to be much different than anything with Kuk Sul/Kuk SOol in the name.

    Knowing the history of the HKD Kwans will help because the original Kwans were just schools that the first instructors opened after training with CHoi Yong Sul or his immediate Jr. Instructors. One such Kwan was the Kuk Sool Kwan.

    the translation of the names.

    Kuk Sool Kwan = National Martial Arts School

    Kuk Sool Won = Nation Martial Arts Group/assoc.

    Kuk Sool Do = National Martial Arts Way

    I'm not seeing the difference in practicality.. Why change the name? I have a fact and an assumption.

    1. fact - In Hyuk Suh and In Sun Seo created Kuk Sool Won. In Hyuk Suh brought the martial art to America and declared himself God of it all. This pissed In Sun Seo off so bad that he subsequently left Kuk Sool Won and created the Hanminjok Hapkido association.

    2. Assumption - If you can piss off your own brother so bad that he basically disowns you, then I'm positive that you could piss of someone else that has no kinship to you, so it's easy to assume that some of Suh's people got pissy and left Kuk Sool Won, and because the title is trademarked, simply changed the name to avoid being sued while still basically practicing the same martial art.

    2b. Some points to support my assumption - See number 1. Kuk Sool Won is trademarked. Marlin Sims, and others, leaving Kuk Sool Won. This Video.. Etc..

    Guys.. It's Kuk Sool Won.. Get over it.
    Last edited by Tex; 7/18/2009 10:46pm at .

  7. #17

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    Well put.

  8. #18
    dwkfym's Avatar
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    to be honest, its all the same. really. some forms and techniques are different, but its all the same.

    The only real difference I've seen between all these HKD schools is b/w Korea Hapkido fed. and the Kuksulwon derivatives. KHF had more kung-fu footwork influences.

    Listen to me about this. I trained and gotten belts in both schools.

  9. #19

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    I trained Kuk Sool Won for about a year, and what I saw in that video looked like the same stuff I was being taught. Based on my experience I would recommend finding another style to train in.

  10. #20
    jkdbuck76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpha2six View Post
    Others, like Master John Murphy, were amateur fighters in the 80's and early 90's.

    Last time I heard, Sims and Murphy both were with Hanminjok Hapkido(In Sun Seo). Therefore, anyone that is under-ranked or affiliated are probably using that curriculum. Murphy, from what I know, was never with Kuk Sool Won.
    You mean Jan Murphy the guy who teaches ground fighting? I was a 1st Dan in KSW. Sims is a badass. Period. The best KSW instructor out there. And he can explain technique.

    Years after I left KSW, I ran into him in Georgia and we had a great discussion. Very nice. But very intense. And he LOVES PAIN. He has good people like Ann Morgan, Cheryl (don't know what her last name is now that she's married), etc. And if you need help with your martial arts, he'll help you.

    Kuk Sool Won is a trademarked name. So anybody who leaves the WKSWA has to either call themselves hapkido, or Kuk Sool Do, or make something up. If not, you'll have a lawyer on your arse.

    Also, to alpha2six: brothers disown each other all the time in business. I've seen it all too often in the business world. Twoboys what were shot out of the same hoo-hah can decide to NOT speak to each other on earth. It really is sad. After the split, the GM sent his brother In Joo Suh back to Korea to be the new Chiefmaster of KSW. I think that In Joo Suh is back in the States, though.

    I've watched some of the Hanminjok vids on Lubetube and I like what they're doing. They certainly seem open-minded and are willing to teach people who are NOT members (for those of you who don't know, you MUST be a member of the WKSWA to attend a seminar).
    Last edited by jkdbuck76; 7/30/2009 12:08pm at .
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