The reason Frank Mir lost!

**babo78** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 8:39am

Originally Posted by Gabetuno

Couture Silvia doesn't have anything to do with this thread. The question is about Size vs BJJ Technique, not Size vs. Inside Boxing Technique, which is what won Couture the fight with Silvia. His ability to box and get inside is also what made his takedowns more effective.

Actually it does. Jasonbrinn mentions BJJ but his overall post is regarding "bigger/stronger" verses "technique/strategy."

Originally Posted by jasonbrinn

I think the fight raises some interesting questions and points as to "bigger/stronger" verses "technique/strategy."

Originally Posted by jasonbrinn

We are told that BJJ and Martial Arts in general give the "smaller/weaker" person the ability to defend themselves against the "bigger/stronger" attacker

Edit: Note that it's BJJ AND martial arts in general. Not just BJJ or only BJJ. Boxing is martial art and Fedor is Sambo not BJJ.

**Gabetuno** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 8:47am

Yeah well, he said he took BJJ for 14 years when he hadn't, so this thread is bullshit anyway.

I concede your point though.

**babo78** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 8:55am

Originally Posted by Gabetuno

Yeah well, he said he took BJJ for 14 years when he hadn't, so this thread is bullshit anyway.

I agree with you here. This is more of subtle jab at BJJ in my view as well.

**selfcritical** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 9:19am

Brock wins because frank held down a lockdown when a top-flight wrestler was in his halfguard.

**meataxe** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 9:30am

Wrestling don't get no respect.

MMA has a long history of wrestlers walking in and wrecking the **** of so-called technical fighters. Maybe wrestling actually has some technique? Or is that too much of a stretch?

As a tai chi chuan practicioner, I'm one of those guys who should be an armchair windbag and go on about wrestlers not having technique. Wrestling technique is a lot different from what I know, however I can't watch a really good wrestler in MMA without noticing that good wrestlers are doing a lot of the same high-level skills, but just executing them differently.

Brock Lesnar is not just a wrestler, but an NCAA champion.

**Rivington** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 9:42am

Why did Mir win the first time?

Sounds like we need a rubber match. IN A STEEL CAAAGE...oh wait, they already do that.

**capt. moroni** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 9:45am

Originally Posted by selfcritical

Brock wins because frank held down a lockdown when a top-flight wrestler was in his halfguard.

This.

Mir killed his own mobility with that Lockdown. It kept Brock from passing, but not much else.

**theotherserge** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 9:46am

Goddamnit, what a stupid thread, is this Sherdog or something?

Mir lost because he never established any gameplan. Turning face down so a big dude can pound on your face is not jitz. Mir also came into the cage beat up&taped knee, so stupid prep-work. Brock was fresh as a rhino in mating season.

Size/whatever, wrestling has been around for 6,000 years; if you have size and know how to use it it certaintly helps. The "it's wrestling vs BJJ all over again" assertion is just stupid.

BJJ is wrestling, just a different emphasis. Hence, no BJJ BB is going to win a NCAA freestyle comp-unless specifically trained for that event. Same goes for a wrestler getting ready for a cage-match.

Mir lost because he is a one-or-two-trick pony, I've never thought he applied BJJ to the ring in a top-level way.

**atom** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 11:35am

See the "Stephen Kesting on Lesnar/Mir" thread in the Advanced Grappling subforum.

**TehDeadlyDimMak** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 11:45am

Originally Posted by meataxe

Wrestling don't get no respect.

MMA has a long history of wrestlers walking in and wrecking the **** of so-called technical fighters. Maybe wrestling actually has some technique? Or is that too much of a stretch?

As a tai chi chuan practicioner, I'm one of those guys who should be an armchair windbag and go on about wrestlers not having technique. Wrestling technique is a lot different from what I know, however I can't watch a really good wrestler in MMA without noticing that good wrestlers are doing a lot of the same high-level skills, but just executing them differently.

Brock Lesnar is not just a wrestler, but an NCAA champion.

I get this all the time. If I take someone down it's because I'm "stronger than them." If I take down someone noticeably stronger than me it's because Yaweh intervened. People seem to assume takedowns and good top control come from nothing more than muscles and gravity.