Shooting a thief

**Sri Hanuman** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 11:31am

Originally Posted by Eddie Hardon

Today's BBC news item: Note the (only) Grievous Bodily Harm charge. She was in her own home. He was not invited in etc.

Burglar cleared of woman's murder

Ada Hopkinson died in February 2008

A burglar who attacked a 94-year-old woman has been cleared of her murder. Stafford Crown Court heard that Ada Hopkinson never fully regained consciousness after the 2005 assault and died in hospital in 2008 aged 97.
Benjamin Brough, 21, of Leek, was convicted of causing grievous bodily harm with intent in May 2006 and sentenced to 12 years in prison.
The judge ordered his acquittal after hearing evidence from medical experts, as well as Mrs Hopkinson's daughter.
Brough was convicted in May 2006 for attacking Mrs Hopkinson at her home.
'Evidence tested'
The Crown Prosecution Service said after Brough's acquittal it had sought to establish whether it was possible to prove the cause of her death was "directly attributable to the defendant and his actions".

Neither family should have been in this position - I'm grateful my prayers have been answered

Carol Brough, defendant's mother

Acting Chief Crown Prosecutor Keith Prosser said: "During the trial process this evidence has been tested and sufficient doubts have been raised for the judge to order an acquittal."
After the case, Brough's mother said it had been the "right outcome".
Reading her statement, Carol Brough said: "I'm numb and my heart goes out to Ada Hopkinson's family for the traumatic time they have suffered.
"It has been a horrendous four and a half years. This is the right outcome. It's been a nightmare of a journey to get here.
"Neither family should have been in this position. I'm grateful my prayers have been answered."

Photos of Ada Hopkinson's injuries were shown to the court

Staffordshire Police said the decision of the court was a disappointment to Mrs Hopkinson's family.
In a statement, the force praised Pat and Keith Davis, Mrs Hopkinson's daughter and son-in-law.
"Our condolences go to Pat and Keith Davis who had to endure the pain and heartache of seeing Ada go from being an independent healthy woman to being unconscious in hospital for the last three years of her life.
"Throughout their ordeal they have handled the situation with remarkable dignity."

WTF? What country was this? What the **** is wrong with those people? I just had this knee jerk reaction of utter vulgarity, and had to tone down the 4 paragraph post into this...

The guy should have gotten life. If he was in Russia, he never would have made it to the hearings, the "law enforcement" would have made sure of it. I don't know what to say here.

As for anybody breaking in to your house, it's as lt_flippy said. If you do your job right, there will be no one left to testify against you. All you have to say is it was dark, he looked like he was reaching for a weapon, you felt threatened and felt your life was in danger. You had to protect your family. That's that.

**KO'd N DOA** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 12:59pm

Crooks in the house should be fair game - but when you are not sure...

In Montreal Canada, a man was aquited of murdering a cop with an Ruger .357 magnum revolver during a police raid that he mistook (in his sprawling mansion) for home invasions, which are becoming common. http://www.canada.com/montrealgazett...9-16a962da4f05

And more recently an 84 year old in a nursing home shot his nurse with a hunting rifle from his wheelchair - yes he legally had one in the nursing home, it is his residence and fully within his rights, she had just told him that he was being moved to a hopital. He felt threatened in his "home" http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/st...e-laubade.html

**Angry Mandrill** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 1:34pm

Originally Posted by KO'd N DOA

Crooks in the house should be fair game - but when you are not sure...

... don't follow 'em outside.

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 Man charged in shooting death of naked neighbor

Manslaughter charges were filed today against the Upper Gwynedd man who shot his naked next-door neighbor to death when he found the man trying to open the sliding glass door to his basement.

Montgomery Country District Attorney Bruce L. Castor said that while the initial two shots that Bellina fired at Holtzman on Sept. 13 were a legitimate act of self-defense, a series of later shots, including three into Holtzman's head while he was on the ground outside, warranted the charge.

According to officials, Holtzman was actually walking away from Bellina's townhouse when Bellina unlocked the sliding glass door and told Holtzman to put his hands up. Holtzman did, but then began taking steps toward Bellina, ignoring Bellina's requests to halt, and eventually entering Bellina's house, officials said.

Castor believes that Holtzman may have been very disoriented since toxicology reports show that he had a blood-alcohol level of 0.22 percent at the time of his death.

Bellina then fired two rounds in the basement, according to an affidavit of probable cause. A "critically wounded" Holtzman then walked out of the house and Bellina pursued him. Authorities then say that Bellina fired three shots into Holtzman's head, the last one being a "coup de grace," according to the affidavit.

or, if you do... don't be as stupid as this guy. bellina invited the guy in and then shot him, then chased the poor schlub when he tried to get away. pleaded guilty, 10-20 years.

**FictionPimp** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 2:23pm

I think if a shot a guy in my home and he ran out of my home I probably would not pursue him. The police should be able to just pick him up at a hospital (unless 357 rounds don't require medical attention).

However, if he was fleeing with my belongs and I hadn't shot him just yet I would probably shoot.

I would never go over to a wounded man and put one though the skull however. That's just straight up murder.

**Ming Loyalist** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 2:30pm

what's the legality of carving "thief" into their forehead if you manage to subdue them?

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 2:36pm

The right to self-defense: So simple even a 3 year-old gets it.

YouTube - ill kick your ass

**Angry Mandrill** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 2:52pm

Originally Posted by FictionPimp

However, if he was fleeing with my belongs and I hadn't shot him just yet I would probably shoot.

i guess this is the scenario the OP was talking about. if you shoot the guy while he's trying to escape and no longer posing a threat of physical harm, you're going away (in pa anyway). if he's outside and running away, i'm not throwing away my future for a dvd player.

**Sri Hanuman** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 2:54pm

Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist

what's the legality of carving "thief" into their forehead if you manage to subdue them?

Nothing, if you keep them chained up in the basement.

**Wounded Ronin** · Posted On: 7/16/2009 6:39pm

The other day I actually saw a package of 5 flexible baton 12 ga. rounds at a gun store for like thirty bucks. I figure if you have any ambiguity about shooting someone you could always opt for a less lethal load. (Keep an extra shotgun painted green for this purpose.)

**Hesperus** · Posted On: 7/17/2009 2:41am

If you suspect bodily harm is imminent, take appropriate action. If not, don't.

I think the less-than-lethal rounds are a good idea if you think more than a couple of those (9 & 14) are reasonable cause to start shooting. That and a chill pill. It's just stuff, get replacement insurance if your **** is so important to you you'd ice a man for stealing it.