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  1. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 11:30pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Shooting a thief

    I'm interested in discussing the legalities of shooting someone who is attempting to deprive you of property.

    How do you think the law would side in these situations.

    1) You are awakened at night in your home to find a robber running out your front door into your yard in the dark. You have time to check to see if your family members or property is safe and you have a clean shot.

    2) You are awakened at night in your home and find a robber attempting to flee out your front door. You don't know if he has any property but you are fairly sure your family is safe.

    3) Same as two except for he is out your front door and in your yard.

    4) Same as previous three only the robber is in the street.

    5) You are awakened to find a robber attempting to steal your car in your garage.

    6) ...In your drive way.

    7) ..on the curb in front of your house.

    8) .. on the curb in front of a business or another person's house.

    9) A robber attempts to carjack you.

    10) a robber attempts to steal your car while you are inside paying for gas.

    11) A robber is robbing you on the street unarmed.

    12) .. unarmed on the street and is turning away from you after you have handed him your belongings.

    13) .. unarmed on the street and is running away from you after you have handed him your belongings.

    14) A robber is robbing you armed on the street (knife, gun, or wing chun).

    15) .. armed and starting to turn away after the robbery.

    16) .. armed and running away from you after the robbery.

    Beyond that, what type of robbery do you feel is justified to shoot. If they take your wallet with no money? If they take your high end cell phone or laptop? For the sake of argument we will state they are not attempting to take your child, wife, or grandma.

    I'm just curious what state/country you are in and what you feel is reasonable and what you believe the law or a jury will feel is reasonable.
    "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki
  2. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 11:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: judo hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We have here in OK:

    http://www.oksenate.gov/news/press_r...20060425a.html

    Many people have concealed carry permits.

    Probably more than 50% of urban homes have firearms. At a guess, at least 90% in rural areas.

    When to shoot? If you feel your life is potentially threatened.

    Having said that, if someone crawls through my window / kicks down door, they are dead. No dialog necessary.
  3. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 12:10am

    supporting member
     Style: judo hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm interested in discussing the legalities of shooting someone who is attempting to deprive you of property.

    How do you think the law would side in these situations.

    1) You are awakened at night in your home to find a robber running out your front door into your yard in the dark. You have time to check to see if your family members or property is safe and you have a clean shot. Kill - bastard may come back.

    2) You are awakened at night in your home and find a robber attempting to flee out your front door. You don't know if he has any property but you are fairly sure your family is safe. Kill - you are only fairly sure. May have tossed daughter out of bedroom window.

    3) Same as two except for he is out your front door and in your yard. Kill = GET OFF MY LAWN!

    4) Same as previous three only the robber is in the street. Kill - drag back into yard (see 1 - 3 above).

    5) You are awakened to find a robber attempting to steal your car in your garage. Fully insured? May want to give keys and let go. If good sound system - kill.

    6) ...In your drive way. Shoot in ass.

    7) ..on the curb in front of your house. Shoot in ass and drag back to driveway.

    8) .. on the curb in front of a business or another person's house. Nosey neighbor - tell where bedroom is. Friend - shoot in leg and let neighbor finish off.

    9) A robber attempts to carjack you. Insured, shitty sound system = go with blessing. Car is your baby? - kill after first shooting knee caps.

    10) a robber attempts to steal your car while you are inside paying for gas. Gas prices are high enough. Kill the bastard but don't use incendiary rounds.

    11) A robber is robbing you on the street unarmed. What? Empty gun center of mass. Give dead robber your pocket knife.

    12) .. unarmed on the street and is turning away from you after you have handed him your belongings. See #11

    13) .. unarmed on the street and is running away from you after you have handed him your belongings. See #11 Try to use one shot. Ammo is becoming more expensive. Robber has good running shoes? Steal for jollies.

    14) A robber is robbing you armed on the street (knife, gun, or wing chun).

    Wing chun - kill the bastard. His weapon is plastic.

    15) .. armed and starting to turn away after the robbery. See #14.

    16) .. armed and running away from you after the robbery. See #14.

    Beyond that, what type of robbery do you feel is justified to shoot. If they take your wallet with no money? If they take your high end cell phone or laptop? For the sake of argument we will state they are not attempting to take your child, wife, or grandma. Replacing credit cards, stopping bank accounts, etc are a pain in the ass. Kill to put them out of your misery.

    I'm just curious what state/country you are in and what you feel is reasonable and what you believe the law or a jury will feel is reasonable.
    Oklahoma. Make my day.

    Jury of peers. See link in above post.
  4. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 12:44am

    supporting member
     Style: judo hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Apologies - just noticed the forum for this thread.

    Still - stand by 50% of the above post. Especially about my lawn.
  5. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 5:01am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp View Post
    I'm interested in discussing the legalities of shooting someone who is attempting to deprive you of property.

    How do you think the law would side in these situations.

    1) You are awakened at night in your home to find a robber running out your front door into your yard in the dark. You have time to check to see if your family members or property is safe and you have a clean shot.

    2) You are awakened at night in your home and find a robber attempting to flee out your front door. You don't know if he has any property but you are fairly sure your family is safe.

    3) Same as two except for he is out your front door and in your yard.

    4) Same as previous three only the robber is in the street.

    5) You are awakened to find a robber attempting to steal your car in your garage.

    6) ...In your drive way.

    7) ..on the curb in front of your house.

    8) .. on the curb in front of a business or another person's house.

    9) A robber attempts to carjack you.

    10) a robber attempts to steal your car while you are inside paying for gas.

    11) A robber is robbing you on the street unarmed.

    12) .. unarmed on the street and is turning away from you after you have handed him your belongings.

    13) .. unarmed on the street and is running away from you after you have handed him your belongings.

    14) A robber is robbing you armed on the street (knife, gun, or wing chun).

    15) .. armed and starting to turn away after the robbery.

    16) .. armed and running away from you after the robbery.

    Beyond that, what type of robbery do you feel is justified to shoot. If they take your wallet with no money? If they take your high end cell phone or laptop? For the sake of argument we will state they are not attempting to take your child, wife, or grandma.

    I'm just curious what state/country you are in and what you feel is reasonable and what you believe the law or a jury will feel is reasonable.
    Just so you know (you probably do already or you suspect) here in the UK, you would probably be prosecuted with a good possiblity of being jailed; even if you had a gun licence...

    (Even without the gun, you'd likely be prosecuted for excessive use of force. No, an Englishman's Home is not necessarily His Castle - if he ever was).

    Cheers
  6. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 7:58am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm of the opinion that in my state you could legally shot someone in many if not all of those situations. The state has a castle law and a stand your ground law. It also allows you to use reasonable (including deadly force) to protect your property.

    So i guess if a man just threatened you with bodily harm and has your property, how could deadly force not be reasonable?
    "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki
  7. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 11:07am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp View Post
    I'm of the opinion that in my state you could legally shot someone in many if not all of those situations. The state has a castle law and a stand your ground law. It also allows you to use reasonable (including deadly force) to protect your property.

    So i guess if a man just threatened you with bodily harm and has your property, how could deadly force not be reasonable?
    Here in the UK, we have seen cases where armed intruders were confronted and beaten up. Oddly, these have resulted in the homeowner(s) being criticised by judges for excessive use of force if not actually threatened with imprisonment.

    Sadly the only case which comes to mind is that of Tony Martin, who shot 2 burglars and was sent to jail. Awful for a number of reasons. However there have been others here in Blighty. The Law can be a puzzle sometimes...
  8. lt_flippy is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 11:18am


     Style: Dirty

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think in California it is illegal to shoot a burglar if the court deems that your life wasn't in danger. However, if you're a decent shot, it shouldn't be an issue of your word against theirs.
  9. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 11:22am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lt_flippy View Post
    I think in California it is illegal to shoot a burglar if the court deems that your life wasn't in danger. However, if you're a decent shot, it shouldn't be an issue of your word against theirs.
    Today's BBC news item: Note the (only) Grievous Bodily Harm charge. She was in her own home. He was not invited in etc.


    Burglar cleared of woman's murder


    Ada Hopkinson died in February 2008

    A burglar who attacked a 94-year-old woman has been cleared of her murder. Stafford Crown Court heard that Ada Hopkinson never fully regained consciousness after the 2005 assault and died in hospital in 2008 aged 97.
    Benjamin Brough, 21, of Leek, was convicted of causing grievous bodily harm with intent in May 2006 and sentenced to 12 years in prison.
    The judge ordered his acquittal after hearing evidence from medical experts, as well as Mrs Hopkinson's daughter.
    Brough was convicted in May 2006 for attacking Mrs Hopkinson at her home.
    'Evidence tested'
    The Crown Prosecution Service said after Brough's acquittal it had sought to establish whether it was possible to prove the cause of her death was "directly attributable to the defendant and his actions".

    Neither family should have been in this position - I'm grateful my prayers have been answered


    Carol Brough, defendant's mother

    Acting Chief Crown Prosecutor Keith Prosser said: "During the trial process this evidence has been tested and sufficient doubts have been raised for the judge to order an acquittal."
    After the case, Brough's mother said it had been the "right outcome".
    Reading her statement, Carol Brough said: "I'm numb and my heart goes out to Ada Hopkinson's family for the traumatic time they have suffered.
    "It has been a horrendous four and a half years. This is the right outcome. It's been a nightmare of a journey to get here.
    "Neither family should have been in this position. I'm grateful my prayers have been answered."

    Photos of Ada Hopkinson's injuries were shown to the court

    Staffordshire Police said the decision of the court was a disappointment to Mrs Hopkinson's family.
    In a statement, the force praised Pat and Keith Davis, Mrs Hopkinson's daughter and son-in-law.
    "Our condolences go to Pat and Keith Davis who had to endure the pain and heartache of seeing Ada go from being an independent healthy woman to being unconscious in hospital for the last three years of her life.
    "Throughout their ordeal they have handled the situation with remarkable dignity."
  10. lt_flippy is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 11:26am


     Style: Dirty

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A.) The old woman should have been a better shot.
    B.) On second thought, you should probably shoot them when they are facing you, so that you can say they were gonna pull something out of their coat after ballistics get run.
    C.) That sucks.
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