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  1. rev.jc is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 12:03pm


     Style: Vale-Tudo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    how dehydration is tested,

    In NY state for wrestlers dehydration is tested for on certification day, you are not allowed to lose more than 10 % of you total body weight, I may make a mistake so feel free to correct my exact facts, but they check to make sure you are not dehydrated through a urine test then figure the 10%, there is also a body fat test that goes along with that. (I frankly can't remember my coaches cert questions)

    USA Boxing allows for weighins 4 hours prior, dehydration is checked for by blood pressure comparitive, you must recieve your physical immediatly after weighing in,

    I suppose this will not be scientific, I coach kids, run a gym have lots of amature boxing matches, promote fights & yes still fight on occasion, but I have to concure that weight cutting does give an edge in speed & power, & for my buck the edge is not mearly psycological.

    just my 2 sense!
  2. madrigan is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 12:09pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by rev.jc View Post
    In NY state for wrestlers dehydration is tested for on certification day, you are not allowed to lose more than 10 % of you total body weight, I may make a mistake so feel free to correct my exact facts, but they check to make sure you are not dehydrated through a urine test then figure the 10%, there is also a body fat test that goes along with that. (I frankly can't remember my coaches cert questions)

    USA Boxing allows for weighins 4 hours prior, dehydration is checked for by blood pressure comparitive, you must recieve your physical immediatly after weighing in,
    Is there any technical or practical, as opposed to financial, reason why the UFC could not use similar requirements?
  3. TheLordHumungus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 12:49pm


     Style: Wrestling, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by madrigan View Post
    The approaches to MMA as a sport are not limited to 1) Fighter who will do just about anything to achieve some real or imagined edge in a fight and 2) Tapout dood.

    I'm neither a fighter nor a Tapout dood, and personally I find the entire practice of weight cutting ridiculous and disturbing, regardless of whether it might offer some advantage to an athlete -- an advantage of which I'd like to see some scientific evidence. Really, all this talk about cutting being part of the fabric of the sport is irrelevant. If it's unethical or unhealthy, it doesn't matter if it's a common or longstanding. It needs to be evaluated on its own merits.

    Excellence and masculinity are not defined by "extremeness" or self-endangerment.
    You don't fight? At all? So cutting weight seems ridiculous and disturbing to you why?

    I thought maybe you'd had bad experiences with it or something. Maybe it just seems odd to you, like how ppl mock bodybuilders for shaving their whole bodies and dropping to like 2% bodyfat. Sometimes what seems odd from the outside is fundamental to what you're looking at.
  4. madrigan is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 1:41pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLordHumungus View Post
    You don't fight? At all? So cutting weight seems ridiculous and disturbing to you why?

    I thought maybe you'd had bad experiences with it or something. Maybe it just seems odd to you, like how ppl mock bodybuilders for shaving their whole bodies and dropping to like 2% bodyfat. Sometimes what seems odd from the outside is fundamental to what you're looking at.
    No, I'm an old fat proto/former-beginner. So no bad personal experiences with cutting. I'm not surprised that people try to manipulate the rules; I am surprised that this sort of blatant manipulation is tolerated. Usually, when a competitor finds a loophole in a rule, the rulemaking body moves to close it. You may be familiar with the "Sean Avery Rule" and the "Rob Ray Rule" in the NHL, or with the Infield Fly Rule in baseball. When a competitor found a way to act legally against the spirit of the rules, the rules were changed. Whereas in professional combat sports, there are rules about weight that are routinely violated and the promotions and state boards just throw up their hands. I think that is very odd.

    What I find disturbing is that athletes would do something so obviously dangerous and unhealthy. Even we not-athletically-gifted types understand wanting to win -- there is competition outside of combat sports, after all. But I think we all agree that cutting is not exactly good for your body. I really do not understand how it would occur to someone to fight in a weight class that their body does not naturally belong in. If your body weighs 180 pounds when following an appropriate training regimen, why not just fight in the weight class that includes 180 pound guys? I understand that weight naturally fluctuates, and as I understand it the amateur rules make allowances for this.

    Personally I can't rationalize the idea that anyone would put their body through this in order to get an advantage in a fight, or really, in anything. To me as a fan, it makes the sport seem a bit less legitimate and the fighters a bit less admirable.
  5. TheLordHumungus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 1:57pm


     Style: Wrestling, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's no loophole and it's not cheating. The rule says you must be below a certain weight at time of weigh in. Cutting puts you below that weight.

    What do you imagine is your natural weight? Right after a meal? After a workout? When your training is at its most intense? When you put on weight during the off season or over vacation? Your weight is gonna vary wildly during many of these times, at which point would getting weighed constitute cheating?
  6. TheLordHumungus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 2:01pm


     Style: Wrestling, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I realize that my posts may come off as hostile, they're not meant to be. Weight cutting is one of the things wrestlers take a lot of **** for, like the singlet. And like the singlet, I get a little passionate in defending it.
  7. Siniq is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 2:02pm


     Style: Gym drifter

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cutting weight is BS in my eyes. I suggest A weigh in right before they enter the ring and if they have a certain amout of weight(like 10 pounds or somthing?) different from their weigh in weight - DQ or point penalty.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBadGuy
    The Dog kid's mom is parked next to me in the parking lot. He runs up and asks me a question. "Hey dude, where did you learn that stuff?"

    "That was grappling. Real MMA."

    "Where do I go for that?"

    I was a little shocked. Sure, he changed sides quickly, but I guess even a dog can realize it has more in common with the wolf than with the shephard.

    I give him the names of some BJJ schools in the area, and we go our separate ways.
  8. madrigan is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 4:03pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLordHumungus View Post
    I realize that my posts may come off as hostile, they're not meant to be. Weight cutting is one of the things wrestlers take a lot of **** for, like the singlet. And like the singlet, I get a little passionate in defending it.
    You are not coming off as hostile. I bear no ill will toward the singlet, although this post reminded me of The Breakfast Club.


    Brian: You wear tights?

    Andrew: I wear the required uniform!

    Brian: Tights.

    Andrew: Shut up!


    Quote Originally Posted by TheLordHumungus View Post
    It's no loophole and it's not cheating. The rule says you must be below a certain weight at time of weigh in. Cutting puts you below that weight.

    What do you imagine is your natural weight? Right after a meal? After a workout? When your training is at its most intense? When you put on weight during the off season or over vacation? Your weight is gonna vary wildly during many of these times, at which point would getting weighed constitute cheating?
    Ok, but the rule says that with the goal of having you below a certain weight at the time of the match, no? This is why I say it's a loophole. They made a rule to ensure that competitors were within a certain weight range at the time of the match, but the weigh in is quite a bit prior to the match for a variety of reasons, which allows people to come in heavier than permitted. If there's a rule which allows this kind of manipulation, and the rulemaking bodies won't make it more clear and specific, and enforce it strictly, then it's not much of a rule.

    As I said, the natural weight in this case would be the weight you're at when you are actually training for a match, with allowances made for normal fluctuations. Obviously the weight we're interested in here is not your walking around weight. It's your in-shape-ready-to-go weight.
  9. legomepanda is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 9:16pm


     Style: grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A distinction should be made between cutting and cutting a drastic amount. I don't think anyone should really have a problem with cutting around 10lbs for competition. 20lbs is a bit much. But it's my opinion that if you're upset about fighting someone who's heavier than you, get over it. They cut better than you, there's better things to be focusing on.

    Maybe an open weight division or wider divisions would equalize the cutting a bit.
  10. TheLordHumungus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2009 12:05am


     Style: Wrestling, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by madrigan View Post
    You are not coming off as hostile. I bear no ill will toward the singlet, although this post reminded me of The Breakfast Club.


    Brian: You wear tights?

    Andrew: I wear the required uniform!

    Brian: Tights.

    Andrew: Shut up!




    Ok, but the rule says that with the goal of having you below a certain weight at the time of the match, no? This is why I say it's a loophole. They made a rule to ensure that competitors were within a certain weight range at the time of the match, but the weigh in is quite a bit prior to the match for a variety of reasons, which allows people to come in heavier than permitted. If there's a rule which allows this kind of manipulation, and the rulemaking bodies won't make it more clear and specific, and enforce it strictly, then it's not much of a rule.

    As I said, the natural weight in this case would be the weight you're at when you are actually training for a match, with allowances made for normal fluctuations. Obviously the weight we're interested in here is not your walking around weight. It's your in-shape-ready-to-go weight.
    I see what you're saying, but the only way to fix that is move weigh ins to the day of the fight. If the promotion is willing to of course. Hell, even in HS and College, when the weigh ins were only hours before the matches dudes would eat and drink like crazy between weigh ins and the match.
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