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  1. simonifrius is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 12:54am


     Style: Parkour and Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
    Lets keep a sense of perspective: I should say that Sam's point is all the more relevant because if I just pulled this thread up I would assume that there was an obligation of some sort related to this exercize.

    The thing is nobody should ever feel like they have to respond to a challenge... I for one do not settle things that way and I would never challenge someone on a personal issue. Yes, if there is a scientific principle at stake I am there! I.e. if you want to see if a type of training or a scenerio is effective I will take an opinion and we will put our bodies on the line! But to fight based on an insult? I laugh at that.

    Having said that people who do fight for this reason have a right to do so. But its a choice, not an obligation.
    Agreed. I don't think there should be an obligation to accept it, or the ability to bully people as a means of censorship. But I don't think it's out of line to expect someone to accept or refuse a challenge for breaking the golden rule.
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 1:41am

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
    Lets keep a sense of perspective: I should say that Sam's point is all the more relevant because if I just pulled this thread up I would assume that there was an obligation of some sort related to this exercize.

    The thing is nobody should ever feel like they have to respond to a challenge... I for one do not settle things that way and I would never challenge someone on a personal issue. Yes, if there is a scientific principle at stake I am there! I.e. if you want to see if a type of training or a scenerio is effective I will take an opinion and we will put our bodies on the line! But to fight based on an insult? I laugh at that.

    Having said that people who do fight for this reason have a right to do so. But its a choice, not an obligation.
    This is where I'm chiming in. It has always been my policy that you respond either yay or nay. No person should have to accept a challenge should be the issue here.

    Main example;
    Person comes onto bullshido and tells us how awesome he his. Finally we call him on it. We will fly out to him he can show us how bad he really is. That person then spends the next 3 weeks balking and countering without letting anybody know whether he would take the challenge up.

    This has happened many times in the past.

    Also, and I didn't read all the comments yet, if a person is challenged there's an expense. IMO if persons feel strong enough about the challenge then compensation monies need to be involved. I'm big into loser compensates the winner for travel expenses and the winner gets the video of the fight to do whatever they want.

    This weeds out a lot of posturing.

    I've been brought into challenges more than anybody on this board (besides maybe Rudy). This is how I always did it. Not until a popular poster came under fire did everybody get into an uproar.

    Lastly bullshido does not support these challenge matches. It is ultimately owned by the individual parties. Until someone mentioned this I completely forgot why there wasn't a sticky about it.
  3. marcusdbrutus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 2:09am


     Style: MT, Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't really see why there's a discussion for this. If you don't want to fight, or don't have the means to travel or whatever, there should be no problem in saying so.

    And dicking around all day, not giving a straight answer is definitely a waste of everybody's time, except for the ass-hats who like man drama and **** talking. Personally it gives me a headache, I'd rather just get punched in the face.

    My 2 cents.
  4. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 10:59am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless View Post
    This is where I'm chiming in. It has always been my policy that you respond either yay or nay. No person should have to accept a challenge should be the issue here.

    Main example;
    Person comes onto bullshido and tells us how awesome he his. Finally we call him on it. We will fly out to him he can show us how bad he really is. That person then spends the next 3 weeks balking and countering without letting anybody know whether he would take the challenge up.

    This has happened many times in the past.

    Also, and I didn't read all the comments yet, if a person is challenged there's an expense. IMO if persons feel strong enough about the challenge then compensation monies need to be involved. I'm big into loser compensates the winner for travel expenses and the winner gets the video of the fight to do whatever they want.

    This weeds out a lot of posturing.

    I've been brought into challenges more than anybody on this board (besides maybe Rudy). This is how I always did it. Not until a popular poster came under fire did everybody get into an uproar.

    Lastly bullshido does not support these challenge matches. It is ultimately owned by the individual parties. Until someone mentioned this I completely forgot why there wasn't a sticky about it.
    This brings up some good points: And my opinion is that Omega, or anyone else like Rudy, who has experience in the challenges carries a lot of weight. Yes the net is egalitarioan and its nice to hear from some 16 year old in waskegee, but when you have done this you speak from experience.

    a) the provisions in place are great. the video owership and the expense breakdown. I don't see a reason why that should be fucked with.

    Omega your points bring another issue though: If I start talking mad mad **** about how good I am and then turn around and say I don't do challenges.... well in a way I am de facto issuing a challenge. This might even be a scenerio like the banning where if somoene says they will confront someone... that it becomes a challenge and has to be addressed as such for the original challenge to proceed properly.

    What people may not realize is that if the challenge is abused this way it will lose its ability to act as an arbitrator for a claim. Randi takes his challenge conditions seriously and there is a formal procedure, any agent in a challenge has to act according to procedures that are consistant, including when a challenge is defacto issued... for the challenge to carry any weight as a way to debunk.

    The challenge in this case acts as a way to stop trolling and has a legitamate function: At some point somoene talking **** can constitute a challenge. Hence beong challenged forces a troll to put up or shut up.

    I mention this because it is why a yay or nay is necessary. Also anything that makes the challenge less formal will allow for more interpretation which is a proplem: Any of you guys remember a challenge match fought in the philipines years ago on television? Both guys smacked the **** out of each other the cameras sort of caught it, both guys ran back to their followers claiming victory... virtually nothing was accomplished Formal procedures have their place.
  5. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 11:02am

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by marcusdbrutus View Post
    I don't really see why there's a discussion for this. If you don't want to fight, or don't have the means to travel or whatever, there should be no problem in saying so.

    And dicking around all day, not giving a straight answer is definitely a waste of everybody's time, except for the ass-hats who like man drama and **** talking. Personally it gives me a headache, I'd rather just get punched in the face.

    My 2 cents.
    I agree with your punch in the face....

    the reason its a big deal is because maybe when manshit becomes so **** somoene can use issuing a challenge to shut somoene up. Then they can simply be told "you declined so shut up."
  6. Lindz is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 11:13am

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     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Isn't it kind of unreasonable to set the rules AFTER the challenge is accepted? I mean if you challenge say a ninja they're probably going to want some ridiculous **** like eye gouges and ball shots. Or maybe live weapons. And when you try and argue that the winner in a somewhat limited ruleset will probably win in an unlimited ruleset making those moves unecessary they will say you're backing down.
  7. Whacker is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 11:18am


     Style: jits da variedade brasile

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Personally, I do not agree with the loser bears expenses. Think about it, if there are some disparate skills and experience, then the outcome is all but guaranteed.

    I'll pick on Omega a bit (in a nice way, since everyone's on edge around here now).

    Hypothetical situation, say he gong sau'd me. I'm not going to back down from a challenge on principle, but I'd be willing to bet a year's salary that he'd rearrange my face. Plainly and simply has more knowledge, skill, and experience. Of course nothing is a given and I *could* get a million in one lucky shot in, but the odds are probably greater of our sun going supernova. Wouldn't stop me from standing up for myself. But I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for his plane ticket and other costs to come out here and wail on me, and I would never agree to a condition like that.

    Also, I think the video should be available to both in whole on principle. Both people stepped up and it's only fair and right. It would also put to rest a lot of speculation and crap over the actual events and outcome.


    Aside from these, I'd suggest some provisions to ensure that the challengee not waste the challenger's time and money. That may have been the intent of the "loser bears costs" stipulation above, which isn't a bad idea in principle but there are better ways of doing it IMO. The only thing I could really think of is that the challengee is instantly permabanned should they duck the fight after the challenger puts forth the time and expense to travel to their location, and a huge front-page write up on how big of a ***** and coward the person is.

    It's a two way street. The instigator has the responsibility to making the travel and lodging arrangements to make it out to wherever the tahaddi challenge is. The recipient has the responsibility to provide for a safe, acceptable location, acceptable referees/secondaries, and to actually show the hell up for the fight.

    Just some thoughts for now.
  8. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 11:55am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think insults/trolling should really come into it unless they specifically relate to a person's technical ability.

    There's a difference between telling someone they're an idiot and telling someone you could kick their ass/that their style doesn't work/that they're lying about their ability. In real-life you might be able to shut them up with a beatdown in either case, but in the case of the former you're not really proving yourself right with a gong sau, unless you're challenging them to a spelling bee or something.

    Fighting only truly solves physical & technical questions.

    OTOH I suppose you can challenge anyone to a fight you want for any reason if it makes you feel better, but it really makes no sense to say "shut up you declined a challenge" (or "shut up you got your ass beat") unless the issue was physical/technical to begin with.
    Last edited by maofas; 7/14/2009 12:00pm at . Reason: Clarified that 1st sentence
  9. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 12:05pm

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     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    IMO all "challenge matches" should take place at TD's, and should not be presented to the outside world as anything other than TD fist worthy sparring. No good can come from this organization having an official policy on street fighting.

    Either that, or do it at a sanctioned event.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 12:30pm

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As said before and in multiple thread there is no policy. Omega said to start this thread for discussion.

    TD's IMO should be Drama free. I prefer what happened with Osiris and Anthony. It is away from something we do condone (TDs) and has nothing to do with anyone here.

    To me a TD is for people to meet and to settle some learning differences. TKD can beat BJJ? Really? Come to a TD and let's see. No real animosity and a learning experience.

    Challenge drama should be separate.

    Oh and you either have me on ignore or your box is full War Wheel. I got your pm two days ago and my response was blocked.
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