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  1. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2009 5:09pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Rules and procedures for challenge matches

    What sort of rules and procedures should go into a "sticky" so that when challenges are issued, accepted, rejected, etc... Everybody is on the same page?

    Some issues to consider are:

    1) Can somones legitametely cock block a challenge? For example: Le Bell is 240 pounds and challenges Moose who is 160ish and I say "HUmph! that size variation is not right! As a 250 pound friend a the moose I want to:

    a) take his place?

    b) Issue a challenge that takes precedence?

    c) etc?

    2) The travel expenses who pays what who travels and other logistics.

    3) Formal declaration and acceptance rejection there of...


    etc etc

    basically if people give feedback then it can be organized into a coherent whole. There are some policies in place as well.

    What suggestions do people have? What are some good ways to formally arrainge and consumate a Gong Sou?
  2. Foolish is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2009 6:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kempo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
    What sort of rules and procedures should go into a "sticky" so that when challenges are issued, accepted, rejected, etc... Everybody is on the same page?

    Some issues to consider are:

    1) Can somones legitametely cock block a challenge? For example: Le Bell is 240 pounds and challenges Moose who is 160ish and I say "HUmph! that size variation is not right! As a 250 pound friend a the moose I want to:

    a) take his place?

    b) Issue a challenge that takes precedence?

    c) etc?

    2) The travel expenses who pays what who travels and other logistics.

    3) Formal declaration and acceptance rejection there of...


    etc etc

    basically if people give feedback then it can be organized into a coherent whole. There are some policies in place as well.

    What suggestions do people have? What are some good ways to formally arrainge and consumate a Gong Sou?
    Is there an assumed ruleset to challenges? Or does some procudure need to be defined for agreeing on the them?
  3. danniboi07 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2009 6:18pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Isn't it already a norm for the issuer of the challenge to either go to the opponent or assist in getting the opponent to a suitable location?

    Example:

    I challenge Moose, but we live no where near each other. Because I issued the challenge, I need to meet the Moose at his place or help him get to my place.


    Something like that right?
    "The pedant is he who finds it impossible to read criticism of himself without immediately reaching for his pen and replying to the effect that the accusation is a gross insult to his person. He is, in effect, a man unable to laugh at himself."Sigmund Freud, The Ego and the Id.

  4. Trek is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2009 6:42pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have not been here very long but that is how I assumed challenges would logically play out.
  5. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2009 8:59pm

    hall of famestaff
     

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    We decided not to sticky a thread because Bullshido didn't want to be sponsoring and "legally libel" for any suits that arose out of challenge matches. At various times, its been proposed that:

    The challenger files out to meet the challenged. (avoids a lot of fake challenges.)

    The participants agree to a set of rules.

    The participants have a referee who will end the fight if one of the fighters in knocked out of incapacitated.

    The participants agree and arrange for the match to happen indoors where the public and police will not happen upon it.

    The participants have someone video the match so to avoid he said/he said.

    The participants sign a legal release to prevent legal stupidity if someone is injured during the match.

    The fight will not involve prize money, which would be illegal in almost every jurisdicition in the United States. (Assuming both parties have not obtained the required licenses)
  6. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2009 10:54pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    questions raised

    some people have raised questions about the process. I am not able to respond to these... Sam did respond to some of them.

    Sam also raised some other legal issues.

    Sam my question would be if there is a way to have a procedure? Or is it a potential liability that has to be dealt with informally?

    If people want I can cull all the questions and get some answers from the experts at challenge fight rules and procedures.
  7. simonifrius is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2009 11:38pm


     Style: Parkour and Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
    1) Can somones legitametely cock block a challenge? For example: Le Bell is 240 pounds and challenges Moose who is 160ish and I say "HUmph! that size variation is not right! As a 250 pound friend a the moose I want to:

    a) take his place?

    b) Issue a challenge that takes precedence?

    c) etc?

    2) The travel expenses who pays what who travels and other logistics.

    3) Formal declaration and acceptance rejection there of...
    I'm nobody here, but I'll give my thoughts anyway:

    1. I think this is a relevant issue, but size is one of the real things that people need to consider when talking to others who know how to hurt them. My opinion on this is that there should be an appeal amendment, so that if some jerk is challenging someone that isn't really doing anything wrong and could likely walk all over them, then that's when this rule should apply. If the staff here doesn't want to be involved in challenges, I don't know how this might work. But I stand by that little guys with big mouths ought to check themselves or deal with it.

    2. I think that generally this should be a shared expense. As in, the challenger pays the travel, and the host arranges staying accommodations. This should also help keep things a little more sportsmanlike.

    3. My view of it is, most of these should happen at throwdowns, if at all possible. That helps the participants be a little more protected. I think there should be a warning come from the challenger before a challenge is actually declared, just to clarify that the line has been reached. More on this later. When a challenge is issued, the challenged can either accept or decline; if he accepts, the details of the match, including setting and rules can be discussed via new thread with a witness to oversee this, to ensure that satisfactory rules and conditions can be set. The winner gets to post keep the video and gets dinner/drinks. The loser must formally apologize on their thread for whatever led up to this.
    I think there should be only a few circumstances that lead up to a gong sau: 1. Personal remarks/insults that are carried too far. 2. Claims to knowledge/skill level/experience that are questionable. 3. Excessive trolling. 4. Otherwise breaking the golden rule (asshole).
    If there is a witness (I'd like it to be a mod) that agrees that one or more of these conditions have been met and ignored, and won't back down, this is a temp-bannable offense. (It's a martial arts site, and proof is the standard here.) For example, John is insulting Ben's wife and Ben takes offense. Ben warns John, and John continues to goad Ben. Ben issues a formal challenge that the mods confirm has met criterion 1. John refuses to accept or decline the challenge, and continues his verbal barrage. Byebye John, and STFU.
  8. Whacker is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2009 11:52pm


     Style: jits da variedade brasile

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, before we get too deep into it....

    Sam is this just a bad idea that should be nixed? Is there any way to come up with a set of "suggested guidelines" that can be put up without getting any of us or Bullshido into potential doodoo? Would rather not sink time and effort into something that's going to be considered Not A Good Idea© and not see the light of day.
  9. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2009 11:57pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If some hulking giant of a man challenges you, just say, "I have no wish to fight you." (Or tease him till he runs away; that works too.)

    If you challenge some hulking giant of a man, well that is just your bad luck, innit?
  10. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 12:48am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lets keep a sense of perspective: I should say that Sam's point is all the more relevant because if I just pulled this thread up I would assume that there was an obligation of some sort related to this exercize.

    The thing is nobody should ever feel like they have to respond to a challenge... I for one do not settle things that way and I would never challenge someone on a personal issue. Yes, if there is a scientific principle at stake I am there! I.e. if you want to see if a type of training or a scenerio is effective I will take an opinion and we will put our bodies on the line! But to fight based on an insult? I laugh at that.

    Having said that people who do fight for this reason have a right to do so. But its a choice, not an obligation.
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