Where is all the full contact kung fu....grappling?

**Cullion** · Posted On: 9/29/2011 5:01pm

Originally Posted by Hedgehogey

That's technically hikkikomi gaeshi.

There seems to be a lot more flinging away than in judo, where you want to maintain maximum body contact at most times. Because rules favor throwing uke away/out of bounds?

That and the fact that there's no real interest in following them to the ground because usually CMA = no groundwork.

**Jack Rusher** · Posted On: 9/29/2011 5:04pm

Originally Posted by Hedgehogey

That's technically hikkikomi gaeshi.

Thanks! My knowledge of Judo nomenclature is primitive.

Originally Posted by Hedgehogey

There seems to be a lot more flinging away than in judo, where you want to maintain maximum body contact at most times. Because rules favor throwing uke away/out of bounds?

That's exactly why. Under most traditional chinese full contact rules (i.e. before modern sanshou) fights were held on a platform, and being thrown off the platform was the end of the match (modern matches that try to keep that flavor make it very high scoring). Also, in competitive tuishou (the peculiar wrestling rules used by taiji guys) and sanshou throwing the other guy without following him to the ground is higher scoring.

Originally Posted by Hedgehogey

Also you know what this means: tai chi is only for sport. Welcome to our nightmare.

I actually used to get that from time to time, re: sanshou. One guy told me "that stuff will never work against the dim mak."

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 9/29/2011 5:12pm

Originally Posted by Jack Rusher

Thanks! My knowledge of Judo nomenclature is primitive.

If you have to give it a Judo name, which as its in Tai chi, you don't. You would call it Sumi gaeshi, not Hikikomi gaeshi.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 9/29/2011 5:21pm

It's not unusual to simply not learn names for these things in Tai Chi and other chinese martial arts.

**Jack Rusher** · Posted On: 10/09/2011 9:09am

Originally Posted by Hedgehogey

Because rules favor throwing uke away/out of bounds?

Some historical context on why 'out of bounds' was immediate defeat:

**Jack Rusher** · Posted On: 5/04/2012 4:04pm

Fast forward to 20:00 or so in this video for a 30 second preview of how Chen taiji students learn to close the gap in Chen village:

... from push hands to "bridging" to standing grappling. If one studies with someone who tells him that this sort of hard play isn't required, he should go somewhere else.

**liokault** · Posted On: 5/04/2012 5:07pm

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Sumi gaeshi, not Hikkomi gaeshi.

Be interesting to see how he copes against a competent grappler from a non-Tai Chi background.

I think it would depend on the rule set.

He would probably dominate most people of his own weight in straight stand up grappling......its what he trains for. But put in the ability to use the ground, or a Gi and he would be a lost child.

Put him up against a good Judoka and I bet both would walk away thinking they won, Judo because he threw TCC and TCC because Judo put his knee down.

**thrustpunch** · Posted On: 6/02/2012 2:55pm

tai chi push hands are great for this

**Jack Rusher** · Posted On: 2/17/2013 10:23pm

Some very friendly takedown-only sparring between a world heavyweight push hands champion from Taiwan and Marcelo Garcia:

The taiji player trains in Zheng Manqing's style and calls himself "Push Hands Chen." He was in town doing a competitive push hands seminar that was arranged by Josh Waitzkin, who is a former world push hands champ and Marcelo's first BJJ black belt.