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  1. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 11:14pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    You won't because it isn't Tai Chi.

    I say that as 100% truth and 100% sarcasm.
    I feel like such a nerd that A) I get this and B) in the course of looking for PH-that-looks-like-greco, I tossed out 3 or 4 vids I had found of (admittedly fairly mediocre-skilled) pushing + striking + clinch, in various ratios. Nothing impressive yet (beyond the zaobao training clip Jack posted elsewhere), but I keep hoping for that diamond-in-the-rough ruleset.

    Actually...the ruleset to produce what I'm looking for (though not the techniques) is basically what the WMA forum was founded on: the rebirth of early boxing, with standing grappling and various rules on elbows and clinch durations.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 11:38pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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  3. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 11:44pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    No, but close enough. If I get a chance I'll look for some of the stuff I found before.

    What I've got a real boner for is clinch boxing and the strikes-to-knock-down (not the excellent strikes-to-set-up-throws that you posted) techniques alluded to in the OMA/CMA Summit thread. I see the latter in light/middleweight MMA all the time and it's one of my favorite aspects of the game.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  4. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 5:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Best bet: go to the next Chen Bing seminar with a hidden videocam and during Q/A ask, "So, is it true that in Chen Village you rape dogs? I mean, you seem so nice. I'm sure you buy them dinner first, right?"
  5. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 7:03pm

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     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    Baltimore, I believe in the same event as the lei tai. Nothing amazing in terms of technique like the first one, but it's got good fight.
    YouTube - Shuai Jiao USKSF 2007 - Open Weight Division - Matt Gelfand
    the guy with the shaved head is my good friend and one of 2 shuai jiao instructors at my school. the other instructor is the guy who matt talks to when he steps off of the lei tai.

    one thing to remember about that tournament, that's not a mat, it's a lei tai (plywood platform covered with carpet.) getting thrown on that is pretty brutal. ouch.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  6. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 9:38am


     Style: ti da shuai na

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    The rules are actually vague and ever-changing purposefully in traditional conceptions of PH. PH allows one to practice all the jing -- peng, an, tsai, etc.
    Word. From a thread on Cartmell's site:

    "If there was striking, pushing, and sweeping, etc then I'd say push hands was a worthwhile drill."

    Add in throwing, and that's exactly what real push hands training entails.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    This is broad-strokes-leaving-stuff-out definitions:
    Short form for those coming from more common grappling styles: what CMA guys call "root" wrestlers call "base," and "structure" in taiji is similar to posture in Judo/BJJ.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  7. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 9:50am


     Style: ti da shuai na

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    What I've got a real boner for is clinch boxing and the strikes-to-knock-down (not the excellent strikes-to-set-up-throws that you posted) techniques alluded to in the OMA/CMA Summit thread.
    Here are some guys doing a light/low-intensity version of that sort of sparring (kind of halfway between drilling and sparring):

    YouTube - Taichi sparring

    YouTube - Yang style Tai Chi Chuan in sparring/fighting match

    From the comment thread:

    I'm not sure this can call a transition from push hands to sparing or not, but we do some hand-sticking fighting, just use Peng, Lu, Ji, An for control, use Cai, Lie for destroy position and balance, strike with Zhou(elbow) and Kao(Body strike) and all use sticking and controlling, for punch and kick just are option.
    After that, go to sparring match and fight with all another styles, especially Thai Boxing. That is what I do.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  8. OSPF is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2009 11:11am


     Style: Sōsetsuken

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    I feel like the lack of groundwork, combined with a time-based match length (allowing multiple awesome throws) actually improves the ruleset. No fake drop-seoinages, just solid clinch work (with some jacket work and some no-gi elements) with very technical throws.

    Happy Friday, Bullshido.net.
    "Fake drop-seoinages" ? What is a fake drop seio ? Explain please.
  9. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/18/2009 2:57pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Quote Originally Posted by OSPF View Post
    "Fake drop-seoinages" ? What is a fake drop seio ? Explain please.
    I was delving into judo tachi-waza/nage-waza elitism and alluding to "illegal entries to groundwork" that are basically half-hearted sacrifice throws, including guard-pull tomoenages, drop seoinages that are intended to start a turtle and run up the clock, etc.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  10. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/18/2009 5:23pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

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    Nice thread!

    Some younger kids playing in a tuishou tournament:

    YouTube - kok howe tui shou

    Brazilian shuaijiao player in SJ and san shou matches, showing good skill set carryover:

    YouTube - Shuai Jiao e Sanshou

    Italian tuishou competition with decent rules:

    YouTube - Tui Shou - Calcinaia 2009
    (Good techniques here, phoenix-eagle at ~2:05)

    Tony Chan (Wu style in Hong Kong since '52, not sure his age) doing some freestyle tuishou at a seminar:

    YouTube - Wu Style Tai Chi Chuan Freestyle Push Hands
    (the reversal starting ~0:18 is particularly nice; phoenix-eagle demo at ~2:15 taught with associated form movement)

    Yuan Zumou discussing and demonstrating his take on taiji and tuishou (action starts ~2:18):

    Dailymotion - SHOUBO TAIJI - une vidéo Sports et Extrême@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x8yyvp@@AMEPARAM@@x8yyvp

    ... these demonstrations are a bit gentle/compliant, but that should come as no surprise given that YZ is 69 years old. The "pummeling for underhooks" aspect of push hands is nicely evident here.

    Speaking of YZ, his organization in Paris holds shuaijiao and shoubo tournaments with great frequency. The latter is shuaijiao plus strikes, but none to the head:

    Dailymotion - 8 tournoi internatinal shuai-jiao shou-bo party 9 - une vidéo Sports et Extrême@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x57ykf@@AMEPARAM@@x57ykf

    ... the striking here is mostly pretty bad, but the throws are good. These guys are shuaijiao players who are just learning to mix in strikes.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
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