Has anyone here come across any Dishuquan? Depending on some political things I'm not too familiar with the style is sometimes referred to as Gou quan, which I believe translates to Dog fist. I think referring to the art in such a way has a double meaning. In one sense, most of the moves are done on the ground from your back and as a result the people resemble dogs fighting. In another sense I think its derogatory as fighting on the ground was likely considered "bad form" in China.

Although I can't link yet because I'm a noob, google Dishuquan and Gouquan and see what comes up. There are some videos demonstrating some really interesting take downs. Some are interesting, others are a bit silly. But Dishuquan in particular utilizes triangle chokes, arm bars, rear-naked chokes and other fairly standard grappling moves.

Since there is so much animosity between Japan and China, it should be nigh impossible to prove who was utilizing these moves first. Although at one point I thought there was a picture with Chinese policemen doing armbars, triangles, RNC's along with some other moves that was before Kano had even begun to synergize the various Jiu Jitsu schools. I'm not saying this is a fact or anything like that, just some interesting fodder for discussion.

There are of course, some Chinese who claim that the Fusen Ryu master paid a small fortune to a Dishuquan master to learn his ground skills. Its impossible to say for sure how true this is, especially given the aforementioned animosity between the countries. But it sure would be interesting to think that the ground skills that so drastically changed MMA originated in China where fighting on the ground was frowned upon. However, as with most CMA's there is a rather interesting origin story about Dishuquan, Shaolin monks, the White Lotus temple and the nuns there. That's right, apparently the ground methods were passed onto the nuns because it was assumed that if they were assaulted they would end up on their backs or otherwise on the ground. So to help the nuns, the ground methods were passed on to enable a smaller person to defeat a larger one using leverage and deceptive techniques (sound familiar?). Not to mention, it was assumed that many of the nuns had endured foot binding so for them to stay on their feet in a fight would prove to be most difficult.

Something I've never fully understood though is why only the Fusen Ryu school had the newaza utilized by Kano and eventually the Gracies. You would think that perhaps some other master would have developed similar methods? It seems in most other aspects of Jiu Jitsu there was some cross pollination of methods. But not the newaza. I wonder why? Also, if I'm not mistaken, before a particular Fusen Ryu master (whose name escapes me) came to power the methods of the Fusen Ryu looked nothing like what was taught to Kano. Maybe he was just an inspired dude?

Oh as a side note, most of the videos depicting Gouquan and Dishuquan that I've come across demonstrate take-downs almost exclusively. I do believe there is footage of more "standard" grappling but its definitely more difficult to find. Can't say why that is. Anyone who knows of the old Chinese picture showing the policemen doing the chokes and armbars, please shoot the link my way! Thanks

P.S. If you read this whole drunken tirade, I salute you!