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  1. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2009 10:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Where is all the full contact kung fu....grappling?

    Right here, punks. In the vein of Here's all the full contact Kung Fu! - No BS Martial Arts , I present full-contact kung fu (standup) grappling for your pleasure. I'd feel warm and fuzzy if you responded with good taiji tournaments. Are there non-taiji, non-shuaijiao Chinese grappling styles?

    A very nice set of countering and recountering in a high-level finals match:
    YouTube - Taizhou shuai jiao tournament 07
    I find it interesting that there's a full fall, and the match goes on to the timed limit. OMG it's not jud0 rulez!

    Baltimore, I believe in the same event as the lei tai. Nothing amazing in terms of technique like the first one, but it's got good fight.
    YouTube - Shuai Jiao USKSF 2007 - Open Weight Division - Matt Gelfand

    Shuai jiao tournament warmup looks remarkably like a bunch of (Chinese) judoka warming up before a tournament.
    YouTube - Mundial de Shuai Chiao, Taizhou 2007 - Atletas treinando

    A "my first tournament" post, which I like because it shows entry-level competitors rocking out.
    YouTube - Henan Shuai jiao competition

    Some excellent whatever-they-call-ippons:
    YouTube - Championnat de France Shuai Jiao 2006

    I feel like the lack of groundwork, combined with a time-based match length (allowing multiple awesome throws) actually improves the ruleset. No fake drop-seoinages, just solid clinch work (with some jacket work and some no-gi elements) with very technical throws.

    Happy Friday, Bullshido.net.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  2. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/11/2009 12:22am

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's a shuai tai chi bout which might interest some people as sixteen years later the red player would be the subject of one of the longer threads in this forum:

    YouTube - 1992年推手擂台赛—陈炳 vs 陈二虎 | 1992 push-hands competition—Chen Bing vs Chen Erhu
  3. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/11/2009 10:19am

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    Riv-- 8:30 WOW! Some excellent trips too.

    I found some good stuff at chineseboxingclub.com -- including a youtube channel where he talks about cross-training BJJ & JKD -- click on Fotos & Films. It leads to British tai chi matches:

    Men's Moving Step Pushing Hands - Part 1

    and

    Men's Moving Step Pushing Hands - Part 2

    These remind me of the matches from the 70s and 80s, where you could tell that a large minority of the competitors (at least) did not compete or train hard frequently, yet they still did so occasionally. The "chinese boxing" is practically beating up these old guys, but they give some fight back. I feel that this adds a big dose of realism to recreational players' training. Maybe they don't do clinch-type push hands every class, but they at least have felt the real thing, and have been exposed to it occasionally, and that has to be valuable, even if they don't pursue it further. For one thing, it avoids the travesty that is American push hands bullshido, as seen in Tom Kagan's thread with the Youtube documentary.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  4. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/11/2009 10:38am

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is my favorite PH tournament vid on YouTube. (I've posted it before.)

    YouTube - push hand 80kg-up! ‹!!! ‡‡šŽ‰‹,•€落空!

    It's amusing because Lanky is young, tall, and strong, but Fatty tattoos him anyway. (There's also some slow-mo at the end. 2:44 is instructive as regards sensitivity. Lanky goes for the uproot but Fatty is listening and realizes that the left leg and left side is jammed a bit so he shoulders on in, gets Lanky's heels off the ground, and then gives him a tour of the lights and mat.)

    I liked the Bing/Erhu vid because it is one of the rare non-mismatches widely available. (Winners write the history books and all that.) That said, it's a bit tedious because Erhu is playing for points too much (thus all the dragging of Bing down with him to keep Bing from scoring too highly). There's an example of the sportive context leading to tactical decisions that in a fight would be counterproductive.
  5. JP is offline
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    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2009 11:03am

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     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    RE: Rivington

    That's a great example of the format.

    The thing I like most about that clip is that at 1:14 you can clearly see the body mechanics for striking within the context. It's maybe the clearest I've ever seen in a push hands clip where they'd only need to swing a little harder and land some punishing strikes.

    Thanks for that, I'm going to save it for when I talk to Tai Chi people.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  6. kwoww is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/11/2009 12:42pm


     Style: punching bag / crew jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Would someone care to explain how shuai jiao and push hands are related and/or different, if at all? They look remarkably similar to me.

    edit: there's shuai tai chi too? im so confused. why can't they be simple and straightforward like the koreans and japanese
  7. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/11/2009 1:27pm

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     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    SJ highlight reel. As an outsider, it's totally wild how I can see the judo corollaries of each throw--but it's drastically different. 0:09 is like a Koga-ish morote seoinage, for instance.

    YouTube - Shuai Chiao

    I'll leave the experts to distinguish TJ & SJ.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  8. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/11/2009 1:45pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwoww View Post
    Would someone care to explain how shuai jiao and push hands are related and/or different, if at all? They look remarkably similar to me.
    Shuai jiao is the sport of standing wrestling, played in thick jackets.

    Push hands is the name of a large number of two-person exercises that can be played as drills, semi-competitively, or competitively. The goals of push hand games are to teach sensitivity, to learn how to deal with incoming forces, to practice creating and maintaining a structure under various pressures, and to try techniques out. Here's an example of a one-handed push hands drill many people learn first just to get used to playing. It has other pedagogical uses too. Can you guess what they might be?:


    YouTube - Chen Taijiquan Single Hand (Danshou) Tuishou

    As you can see, push hands is a lot of things.

    edit: there's shuai tai chi too?
    Sure. Tai chi has a lot of shuai jiao in it. The shuai game in the above video is handy for testing one's structure and ability to root. (Note the absence of the jacket.)
  9. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/11/2009 9:47pm

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    Reposted from elsewhere in the forum, a true classic:
    YouTube - TaiChi 太極推手比賽
    I believe Jack posted this with the explanation that it's a zhaobu taiji student? The last match is a work, obviously, between two students of the same school.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  10. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/11/2009 9:53pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Those are chen guys, actually.
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