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  1. gergus is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2009 3:20am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    try using the chess method, where you make one move then you partner, this starts to get you to think about using your whole body.

    its hard to do at first, but as you make your moves you will start to see stuff you forgot - like leaving a hand on the mat when you should have used it to make a grip.

    its not sparring its thinking and beveloping. you'll want to correct mistakes but dont because you'll get better by seeing these mistakes
  2. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2009 3:16pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think the idea that "there are no moves" comes from the idea that you hit a point where you move off the map. Obviously the high level people that say that are still hitting "moves" - armbars, sweeps, etc, - as most people define "moves" but I know what they mean when they say that - they mean you go from stage 1, total spazz, to stage 2, you know a few things and you fight to manipulate the roll to a point where you can use them, to stage 3, where you have good material and a general game plan that works with your favorite pieces of jiu-jitsu and body type, to stage 4, where you've truly mastered and mapped enough material that your game plan becomes truly fluid.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  3. steve_990 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/22/2009 4:50pm


     Style: Jiu-Jitsu, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have to agree with others that a 50/50 split is the best way. Having said that I would suggest that drills are likely more important for a beginner practitioner before they get used to how to move themselves appropriately. But they still need to do 50/50 as they need to understand why things are done the way they are on a resisting opponent.
  4. tao.jonez is offline
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    Ninja Fruit

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2009 11:18am


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gergus View Post
    try using the chess method, where you make one move then you partner, this starts to get you to think about using your whole body.

    its hard to do at first, but as you make your moves you will start to see stuff you forgot - like leaving a hand on the mat when you should have used it to make a grip.

    its not sparring its thinking and beveloping. you'll want to correct mistakes but dont because you'll get better by seeing these mistakes

    How does this work, exactly? When is a move "completed"?
    I mean...is "pass guard to kesa" considered "a move"?
    Do you apply submissions, and then the other person has to escape / defend?
    Or do you have a time limit in which the other guy is non-resistant?

    I like the concept, just trying to figure out how to make it functional.
  5. 1point2 is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2009 11:24am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tao.jonez View Post
    How does this work, exactly? When is a move "completed"?
    I mean...is "pass guard to kesa" considered "a move"?
    Do you apply submissions, and then the other person has to escape / defend?
    Or do you have a time limit in which the other guy is non-resistant?

    I like the concept, just trying to figure out how to make it functional.
    Depends. The final part of the famous Gracie tapes was Royce and Rorion doing this "jiujitsu chess" game. At times, a "move" is considered just, say, breaking open the guard. At other points, it's "pass the guard, achieve side control, and take grips to set up an armbar." The moves vary in length due to ego, situation, and agreement between partners.

    It's my favorite part of the series because they then devolve into competing storylines--each of them talking over the other, explaining how what they're doing is the correct response, and vying for their "turn" to go longer and start sooner than the other's. Hilarious and very real: it's inevitable that at some point playing the game, you'll call shenanigans on your partner and their 10-piece combination move that they fit into a single turn.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  6. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2009 1:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tao.jonez View Post
    How does this work, exactly? When is a move "completed"?
    I mean...is "pass guard to kesa" considered "a move"?
    Do you apply submissions, and then the other person has to escape / defend?
    Or do you have a time limit in which the other guy is non-resistant?

    I like the concept, just trying to figure out how to make it functional.

    I was going to ask the same thing. We were going to do this last night but we couldn't agree on what was a complete move. Especially between two people of completly different skill level.

    So we scrapped it and did offence vs defense. But I really want to try this, if we can get some clerificatin.

    Thanks.
  7. tao.jonez is offline
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    Ninja Fruit

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2009 1:23pm


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    Depends. The final part of the famous Gracie tapes was Royce and Rorion doing this "jiujitsu chess" game. At times, a "move" is considered just, say, breaking open the guard. At other points, it's "pass the guard, achieve side control, and take grips to set up an armbar." The moves vary in length due to ego, situation, and agreement between partners.

    It's my favorite part of the series because they then devolve into competing storylines--each of them talking over the other, explaining how what they're doing is the correct response, and vying for their "turn" to go longer and start sooner than the other's. Hilarious and very real: it's inevitable that at some point playing the game, you'll call shenanigans on your partner and their 10-piece combination move that they fit into a single turn.
    That's what I envisioned. My move> your move> my move ad nauseum. Like so many things it's all about your interaction with a partner. Sounds like something worth trying, but I'll have to define some ruleset.

    - unless someone else has already found a simple ruleset that works -

    1,2,3,go --->:gaygay:
  8. gergus is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2009 3:39pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    firstly you have to understand you arent rolling as such,

    one move consists of one move so for example:-

    my move:- right hand grips inside collar, left hand grips sleve
    partner move:- pulls guard holds sleve and collar
    me:-change grip from sleve to hip and try to stand (fail so i have to stay down not try again)
    partner:- moves to open guard looses grip on sleve (carn't adjust already moved)
    me:- hips forward and stack his guard
    and so on......

    the idea is that one move consists of any moves done in one fluid movement. our black belt can sub people in about 5 moves were as it takes the rest of us about 30.
    what it taught me is the number of times you forget about a body part, we call it jazz hands, because you end a move with a hand in mid air doing nothing.

    i'll try to film some of our training to show it more clearly.

    does this help at all, like i said it can be hard to explain
  9. gergus is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2009 3:46pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    right just found this from subs 101

    this is pretty much what i was taking about

    YouTube - Jiu Jitsu Chess Drill

    it keeps you moving light so you can see the game develop not just flail
  10. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2009 4:04pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    YouTube - NYBJJ - 3 Step Sparring

    Starting 3:10

    "repetition is the mother of skill" at 6:00
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