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  1. Snwbrdngpoo is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2009 9:34pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Aikido,Jujistu,Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From what i've seen in these posts, alot of the focus is basically on the caloric number. I eat 4 or 5 reasonably portioned meals throughout the day, and I haven't felt starved or lacking energy. I manage a diet balancing fish, chicken, pasta and veggies. I don't drink and I don't smoke. I excersize a reasonable amount.

    I got this diet from friends who have been eating and working out in a similar manner for several years. As far as I know, they're in tip top shape, a good build, and healthy physically and mentally. I've seen someone drop from 5'7" 220lbs to 150lbs in a little over eight months using a similar diet.

    I honestly think many of you are over-estimating the muscle atrophy and the mental physical strain associated with this diet.
  2. Yojimbo1717 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2009 9:40pm


     Style: Grappling & Lifting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Snwbrdngpoo View Post
    From what i've seen in these posts, alot of the focus is basically on the caloric number. I eat 4 or 5 reasonably portioned meals throughout the day, and I haven't felt starved or lacking energy. I manage a diet balancing fish, chicken, pasta and veggies. I don't drink and I don't smoke. I excersize a reasonable amount.

    I got this diet from friends who have been eating and working out in a similar manner for several years. As far as I know, they're in tip top shape, a good build, and healthy physically and mentally. I've seen someone drop from 5'7" 220lbs to 150lbs in a little over eight months using a similar diet.

    I honestly think many of you are over-estimating the muscle atrophy and the mental physical strain associated with this diet.
    The bottom line is, 800-1200 calories isn't enough. Even the people suggesting pretty low numbers are still in the ball park of 1500; while I'm not suggesting you're going to totally lose all of your muscle, my point has been you can eat more and still lose fat. Restricting yourself like this won't get you there any faster than eating reasonably. 2 lbs/week = healthy, consistent loss and is as good as it's going to get.

    Calories are more or less how you do it. A user prior to me mentioned starvation mode, which kept me at a stand still for a while, using a similar program you're using - super low calorie, albeit 'balanced.' I also did a super high protein diet similar to the user above me - while it did help me lose weight, it totally messed up my training and made me absolutely hate everything. Afterward I felt pretty weak, even while I was on a weight lifting routine.

    Again, you can eat more and get great results without, more or less, starving yourself.

    Edit: I also want to note that EVERYONE knows one or two guys that found success with some sort of diet. Okay, that's fine, but you didn't spend every waking moment with them and don't know EXACTLY what they did. There's your ideal diet and then there's your real diet. We all cheat at some point. We all skip a day of training for one reason or another. Other factors are age, other activities they were doing (for example, weight lifting + a martial art vs. just doing said martial art for the same # of sessions), how often they cheated, etc. I don't see a problem with following someone else's footsteps that succeeded - but frankly, for an active individual, 1200 Calories at 5'9 isn't a great idea.
  3. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2009 9:59pm


     Style: gah, transition again

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The whole point of counting calories is so you're aware of how much energy you are giving to your body so that it may function. If you're eating between 800 and 1200 calories then you're starving yourself literally, especially if you're maintaining a high level of exercise. Honestly, OP, you should be far less worried about your actual weight and more about your body fat percentage. I can guarantee your weight can go up yet you can go down notches in your belt. At your current scheme you're looking at losing muscle mass and getting skinnier, tired-er, and weaker.

    I think the real trick to low carb diets is you have to make up for the energy you're not getting from your carbs, which is why so many of them advocate energy-rich saturated fats. I'm guessing, Yojimbo, that when you went high protein you cut out a bunch of carbs but didn't really replace them with anything particularly substantial and overall went into energy deficit.
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
  4. Yojimbo1717 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2009 10:13pm


     Style: Grappling & Lifting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by socratic View Post
    The whole point of counting calories is so you're aware of how much energy you are giving to your body so that it may function. If you're eating between 800 and 1200 calories then you're starving yourself literally, especially if you're maintaining a high level of exercise. Honestly, OP, you should be far less worried about your actual weight and more about your body fat percentage. I can guarantee your weight can go up yet you can go down notches in your belt. At your current scheme you're looking at losing muscle mass and getting skinnier, tired-er, and weaker.

    I think the real trick to low carb diets is you have to make up for the energy you're not getting from your carbs, which is why so many of them advocate energy-rich saturated fats. I'm guessing, Yojimbo, that when you went high protein you cut out a bunch of carbs but didn't really replace them with anything particularly substantial and overall went into energy deficit.
    Great post.

    When I went on the high protein diet I went to about 3500 Calories and consumed a lot more fat to substitute the lack of carbs. This was over a year ago so I can't recall exactly how much. Having said that, I still feel that a more basic calorie adjusted diet that's balanced is a better option, especially for an active person.
  5. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2009 10:28pm

    Join us... or die
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd say that in general, an able-bodied subject who aims to improve their body composition should increase their calorie deficit by raising their calorie expenditure as much as possible, and use reduced calorie intake sparingly. Stuff like interval training, saving carb intake for the post-workout window, eating smaller meals more often, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  6. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2009 11:33pm


     Style: gah, transition again

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    I'd say that in general, an able-bodied subject who aims to improve their body composition should increase their calorie deficit by raising their calorie expenditure as much as possible, and use reduced calorie intake sparingly. Stuff like interval training, saving carb intake for the post-workout window, eating smaller meals more often, etc.
    Whilst exercising has the obvious muscular etc benefit, in terms of energy management what's the difference between exercising more and eating less?
    Last edited by socratic; 7/08/2009 11:41pm at .
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
  7. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2009 11:46pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by socratic View Post
    Whilst exercising has the obvious muscular etc benefit, in terms of energy management what's the difference between exercising more and eating less?
    My theory - and this is just a theory at the moment - is that your body will react differently to the two. In particular, I suspect that it won't go into "starvation mode" as quickly from an increase in calories out as from a decrease in calories in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  8. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2009 12:09am


     Style: gah, transition again

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    My theory - and this is just a theory at the moment - is that your body will react differently to the two. In particular, I suspect that it won't go into "starvation mode" as quickly from an increase in calories out as from a decrease in calories in.
    Huh. Overall I'd agree with your strategy of increasing exercise over starving simply 'cause of the many benefits you get from exercise.
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
  9. u1ysses is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2009 12:40am


     Style: Judo, BJJ, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's just too few calories, man. You'll experience a quick loss in the short term, some of it water weight, followed by a plateau as your metabolism slows down to compensate. If you keep it that low you're going to end up burning off a low of muscle and you'll be 160 of skinny fat. The thread's title is the problem - you don't want to get your weight down, you want to get your fat % down. That's always the goal.
  10. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2009 7:18am


     Style: MMA, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JollyRoger View Post
    I manage a diet that works well for me. I concentrate on high protein, low carb, low fat.

    Calories: 1,584
    Carbs: 26g
    Protein: 331g
    Fat: 10g

    I maintain high energy levels, I feel great- and best of all I've been shedding fat and gaining muscle.

    If you want the diet just shoot me a PM :)
    Any reason in particular you are avoiding fats?
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