Army bullies, any advice?

[Cassius]

Funny story:

I actually meant not to even post my original commentary once I realized that this thread was old. I didn't even realize I had until I looked at this thread again this afternoon.

[3moose1]

I still can't get over Sunday Morale Calls... Did you guys get congical visits, too?

I'm not in the Army, obviously, but to be honest, I view their infantry as...well...unskilled cannon fodder. Sure, most of that is likely just elitism from my infantry instructors, but I can't get over that.

And the Marine Corps is currently sucking people off trying to get them to go into Marsoc. From what I've heard, though, Recon is still better. Marsoc doesn't get the, "cool" missions, and has to answer to congress. This could all be wrong, completely dead wrong, though. Fucking LCpls.

Just got an email about a new MCO thats asking infantry Marines, Reserve or Active, to go through the Marsoc indoc. I almost put in my papers, but I swim like old people ****....slow and sloppy.

Well, and I run like that, too.

[Cassius]

I still can't get over Sunday Morale Calls... Did you guys get congical visits, too?

Yes, while you guys were fighting Lava Monsters with your NCO swords.

I'm not in the Army, obviously, but to be honest, I view their infantry as...well...unskilled cannon fodder. Sure, most of that is likely just elitism from my infantry instructors, but I can't get over that.

You're a private with like 6 months in the military. Of course this is what you're supposed to think. The programming they do on Marines in particular is really impressive, though you might be surprised to find out that the average Army infantrymen thinks that all marine grunts are stupid and slow.

And the Marine Corps is currently sucking people off trying to get them to go into Marsoc. From what I've heard, though, Recon is still better. Marsoc doesn't get the, "cool" missions, and has to answer to congress. This could all be wrong, completely dead wrong, though. Fucking LCpls.

Just got an email about a new MCO thats asking infantry Marines, Reserve or Active, to go through the Marsoc indoc. I almost put in my papers, but I swim like old people ****....slow and sloppy.

Well, and I run like that, too.

Over the course of your first 2-3 years in the military, you are going to vacillate between going to MARSOC, doing active duty Force Recon, doing your time and joining the Army to go to SFAS as an 18x or taking an option 40, really getting into shape and trying out for 1st SFOD-D, and getting out of the Corps, going into the Navy, and becoming a SEAL. Don't forget Air Force PJ or CCT. Or maybe you'll decide you're going to do intel, as your curveball option.

This is a pretty normal thing for people to do. Keep in mind that you are a rifleman Private, and any of these options would be an improvement in both lifestyle and mission for you, so making qualitative judgements about one of them (ie MARSOC) without actually knowing anything about them is more than a little silly.

Right now MARSOC is backfilling a lot of CJSOTF gaps, which isn't so bad, but could be better. Overseas and back home, they have it pretty good. The general party line in the Marine Corps is that MARSOC sucks. This is because:

1.) No one in the military ever likes anything new, unless it is a uniform or a gadget.

2.) No one in the military likes it when someone is elevated in status over them, or when a resource that they previously valued is taken away (see below)

3.) The Marine Corps as a whole was not happy about losing the majority of their Force Recon marines to SOCOM, which the Marine Corps has zero control over. It takes time to retrain people to fill the gaps.

4.) The average Marine has no idea what MARSOC does on a day to day basis, so they make **** up, and a LCpl sounds cooler exposing the myth than promoting it. In the Army, this is referred to as the PNN - Private News Network, or RUMINT.

Additionally, the bit about congressional oversight for MARSOC (and SOCOM missions in general) is total bunk.

[daishi]

Army kids are in a quasi bootcamp status from recruit training, through AIT and even MOS school to a certain extent. Hell it seems like their privates are still treated like recruits even after they get to their first unit. So if they get calls home, oh well....its their thing. Peruvian Marines' bootcamp is 12months long, and British Royal Marines bootcamp is longer and way worse than the US. Its all relative.

I've worked with Army units in-country, as well as attend some of their schools. They certainly have a different mentality and manner of operating than Marines do. Their leadership and discipline is....interesting to say the least. You don't see E3 and E7's getting in shoving and F-bomb matches to resolve differences in the Corps (at least not often)....but its a branch of the military that functions its own way, and I just equate it to how freaking big the Army is.

A lot of what Cassius said about MARSOC, despite the sweeping generalizations, is relatively accurate. A lot of guys just need to get over themselves, their inferiority/superiority complex, their judgements, and just focus on the work they're currently doing.

There is still blowback and complaints about the MARPAT uniform...so not all guys like new uniforms.

SOCOM is generally an Army-run organ...though I think an AF guy is in charge now. I don't care enough to look it up, I'm just saying there is obviously inter-service bickering and politics at the COCOM level, including SOCOM.

[Cassius]

I've worked with Army units in-country, as well as attend some of their schools. They certainly have a different mentality and manner of operating than Marines do. Their leadership and discipline is....interesting to say the least. You don't see E3 and E7's getting in shoving and F-bomb matches to resolve differences in the Corps (at least not often)....but its a branch of the military that functions its own way, and I just equate it to how freaking big the Army is.

I actually don't think that highly of the regular Army either, but quality in the Army varies wildly from company to company, let alone at the brigade and division level. You can have an amazingly competent squad inside of an absolutely horrid platoon, inside of the worst company of the worst battalion of the worst division, and no one would ever know unless they worked with that individual squad.

A lot of what Cassius said about MARSOC, despite the sweeping generalizations, is relatively accurate. A lot of guys just need to get over themselves, their inferiority/superiority complex, their judgements, and just focus on the work they're currently doing.

I am only repeating what I was told by friends who are currently in MARSOC, who all seem to like it pretty well. I don't pretend to understand their inner workings at anything more than the sweeping generalization level. I have a much better idea of what their mission is and, more specifically, ISN'T overseas, but it's still an outsider's perspective.

There is still blowback and complaints about the MARPAT uniform...so not all guys like new uniforms.

I guess my statement would be more accurate if I amended it to "people really like new uniforms that only they get to wear," ie when SOCOM got multicams. Now the regular army is getting multicams, and I'm already hearing people talk about how multicam is old and busted, and we need to move on to mirage, or desert tiger stripes, or whatever else. Maybe my assertion isn't universally true, but where I live, it is very true.

SOCOM is generally an Army-run organ...though I think an AF guy is in charge now. I don't care enough to look it up, I'm just saying there is obviously inter-service bickering and politics at the COCOM level, including SOCOM.

It depends on what side of the house you're on, but there are a lot more people in the Army than any other org, and a lot more people in USASOC than any other departmental SOC, so it follows that the Army is going to be pretty weighty in there. I'd say that Army and Navy defiintely dominate the vast majority of the command structure right now, but MARSOC is really new, so give them time. I'm sure their officers will elbow in soon enough. There's enough VTCs to go around.

I guess the point I was really trying to get across is this: If you're anything other than a grunt, and you want to get into something specialized or go to "hooah" schools or sekret squirrel stuff, the Army is your best bet. You're not going to see very many MFF/Ranger School/Scuba School/Sniper/whatever qualified intel/supply/mechanic/etc guys outside of the Army. If you're a grunt, you stand a much better chance, but it's still going to be harder than if you were in the Army.

[3moose1]

Cassius, you're a wealth of information, and I really appreciate all the knowledge you've kicked my way over this last year.

[daishi]

I guess the point I was really trying to get across is this: If you're anything other than a grunt, and you want to get into something specialized or go to "hooah" schools or sekret squirrel stuff, the Army is your best bet. You're not going to see very many MFF/Ranger School/Scuba School/Sniper/whatever qualified intel/supply/mechanic/etc guys outside of the Army. If you're a grunt, you stand a much better chance, but it's still going to be harder than if you were in the Army.

I really can't comment intelligently on that...I guess my point was that much of the same training is available to Marines as well; either through the Army, or with "equivalent" (not necessarily equal, I'm sure some are better and some are worse and/or just have different curriculum/TTPs) MARCOR run courses.

I have no knowledge of how easy or hard it is to get into some of these schools. My first four years in the corps was in a non-combat related MOS, while my last 6 years (after I lat-moved), I've pretty much had the choice of about any school I want that has a seat available..even if its not too related to my job, I still know the people to make a drug deal with to get it (which I wouldn't do, because that would be a dick move to take a school seat from someone who needs it...like those Marine E-8s and Lt. Col's at Airborne). Anyway, I guess my point is, I never really had exposure to what regular infantry guys can get...going from an MOS that didn't need any of that, to one with it available much of the time.

While I don't have much knowledge on school availability for regular infantry Soldiers and Marines, I have noticed the Army is better at giving enlisted guys guarantees in their contracts than Marines...I see way more Army cats with pipelines to [insert MOS here] than Sailors and Marines. I'm not too up on how enlistments are being handled these days, though...just what I noticed from talking with Army guys I worked with in Iraq, and at Army run schools in MD, and Columbus, GA....talking to those guys, and comparing it to my time enlisting in the Corps in 2000.

Anyways, not that we've hijacked this thread....!

Thanks for the insight, its always nice to have a civil inter-service conversation.
VR
A

[Muerteds]

Get thee an edumacation and get thee to another service:

Here is where I will tell you that most of what has been said is true, and that I got tired of the games being played with who got what schools and such. So, I got into the NOAA Corps, and will hype it for just a bit. It's little, no one will know who you are or what you do, and you end up going to sea a lot. The highlights?

Enjoy some pictures from this first leg of our summer shark longline cruise:












That's how I spent the last 16 days. Beats sleeping in the field, deciding who gets to be the Lucky Pierre. For those truly interested, I'll hook you up with more info.

[streetfighter86]

ft lostinthewoods sucks!

[kenny_free]

My ass has been stationed here for two years, with two more on the horizon, quitcherbitchin son. Besides, MCMAP and MACP are like the special olympics version of real martial arts, even if your awesome at them they're still retarded.