How Watch Grappling?

**migo** · Posted On: 7/02/2009 8:19pm

On some level you'll never get it just by watching videos - you have to train quite a bit. I remember watching Mark Bocek vs Alvin Robinson with a bunch of friends, some who trained some martial arts, but weren't great grapplers. They were going crazy every time Bocek started working on an RNC and I was staying calm the whole time figuring Robinson would work his way out. Then right before the end Bocek stretches Robinson out and Robinson doesn't curl up, he just stays stretched - no RNC set up yet. I say "Oh ****, he's done" while everyone else is silent, and a few seconds later he's tapping. They recognised the arms around the neck for the RNC but not everything that's involved in keeping it, and you're not really going to recognise that the fighter is done when he's stretched out like that unless you've had it done to you and you just don't have any gas to fight back anymore. That's just one example.

**madrigan** · Posted On: 7/02/2009 9:34pm

Originally Posted by Vieux Normand

Your initial questions seems to put all "grappling" into one bag. You are, I'm sure, aware of the different styles of grappling out there...and that they may all be represented in an MMA-ruleset bout. Very basic and glaringly-obvious example: some types of grappling seem to stress control and sub-setup from the bottom; others find "bottoming" insufficiently manly or something.

I do realize that. I meant "grappling" in a generic sense -- probably good enough at my level of ignorance.

Originally Posted by Gabetuno

So in the words of Adam Sandler,

That picture is oddly motivating.

Originally Posted by v1y

Followup: Do you understand the concept of passing the guard?

Oh crap, a quiz! I think I do. Jacob and Esau are fighting in the Octagon. Jacob takes down Esau and Esau uses his legs to hold Jacob in place so he cannot easily apply a hold or punch him in the head. Jacob is now in Esau's guard. After several minutes, Jacob is able to maneuver past Esau's legs -- this is passing the guard -- and therefore he can apply a submission or just beat on Esau.

And for the record, I wrote that last paragraph before I Googled to make sure I was right. Unless I'm wrong, in which case I blame the technology.

**G-Off** · Posted On: 7/03/2009 1:10am

That is indeed a way to describe passing the guard. Well done.

...Esau??

**v1y** · Posted On: 7/04/2009 8:17pm

the point is madrigan, if the person on top has passed the guard, they're in a 'dominant position', and have moved up the positional ladder.

and as migo explained, most casual fans understand the positional ladder, but don't understand there's a positional ladder within each position. (there isn't a coinflip which takes place determining whether someone in cross side moves to mount or gets put back in guard -- it's nearly always sequential, and attempting to jump the sequence usually results in loss of position)

**ysc87** · Posted On: 7/04/2009 10:07pm

Originally Posted by G-Off

...Esau??

Must mean "guy about to get owned" in some African language.

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 7/05/2009 11:49am

Originally Posted by G-Off

...Esau??

Gong's web-addicted brother.

**resolve** · Posted On: 7/05/2009 1:35pm

Jacob's brother in the Bible. You know, the ones who were always fighting with each other.

(Esau's descendants were the Arabs *hint hint*)

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 7/05/2009 3:17pm

Originally Posted by resolve

Jacob's brother in the Bible. You know, the ones who were always fighting with each other.

(Esau's descendants were the Arabs *hint hint*)

Wasn't Ishmael the ancestral Arab? Y'know the "elder" who has never wanted to serve the "younger" (li'l brother Isaac, who counted himself lucky that he didn't resemble a ram?)

Their father was that fuckwit who didn't know how to watch grappling.