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  1. Matt Phillips is online now
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2009 12:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think CBF is objecting to learning about the history of Judo, I just think he wants to make sure a person has a certain orientation towards Judo before learning about it. This is a bad idea, as it would have the effect of insulating the Judo community from any observations/opinions/facts that might lead one to train in something else. As was stated before, this is how cults get started. Again, bad idea.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  2. Mtripp is online now
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2009 12:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    Ah, the sweet smell of reasoning.

    Does anyone have any information (or opinion) on the modifications that were made to the competitive Judo format after Ne Waza first started to dominate?
    THIS IS MY OPINION, I HAVE NO PROOF OR EVIDENCE!!!!!!!

    Somewhere, time limits went from one hour to 30 minutes to 15 minutes to 5 minutes.

    In my never to be humble opinion, as the time allowed went down, so did mat time. Notice what happened after the 45 minute goat intercourse with Shamrock and Gracie in UFC 5.

    I do not believe the change was made to end mat work. However, you simply can not have time limits AND lots of ground time. Professional Wrestling is the way it is today for EXACTLY the same reason. Uncle Gene has told me many times about matches with Gotch and others that went one and two hours. A guy in a body scissors, for an hour?

    Houdini used to sit behind the curtain reading a newspaper before he came out... today, he'd move much faster.
  3. Matt Phillips is online now
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2009 12:57pm

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     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenBeakFist View Post
    Discussion if fine. If you want to lay claim to any degree of "expertise" I would prefer someone have some experience in that particular field, especially if we're discussing a living art.

    Arrrrrrrrrrrgh. This is why I try to avoid internet debates. I'm sticking to my motherfucking image macros...
    I don't have any fucking expertise in Judo. What I do have is an open mind, and a healthy dose of curiosity. I didn't write a book, I tossed up the facts as I understand them, laid out the conclusion they seemed to be pointing to, and solicited the opinion of all of you, hoping to get a better picture of the issue.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  4. Matt Phillips is online now
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

    Join Date
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    Bahstun
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    9,573

    Posted On:
    6/29/2009 1:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    THIS IS MY OPINION, I HAVE NO PROOF OR EVIDENCE!!!!!!!

    Somewhere, time limits went from one hour to 30 minutes to 15 minutes to 5 minutes.

    In my never to be humble opinion, as the time allowed went down, so did mat time. Notice what happened after the 45 minute goat intercourse with Shamrock and Gracie in UFC 5.

    I do not believe the change was made to end mat work. However, you simply can not have time limits AND lots of ground time. Professional Wrestling is the way it is today for EXACTLY the same reason. Uncle Gene has told me many times about matches with Gotch and others that went one and two hours. A guy in a body scissors, for an hour?

    Houdini used to sit behind the curtain reading a newspaper before he came out... today, he'd move much faster.
    Do you think the changes in match length were driven by the presence of spectators, or by something else?
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  5. MrBadGuy is offline
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    King of the Impossible

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2009 1:03pm

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     Style: Grapplomancer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Only if you THEN bring on the "any BJJ blue belt can beat any judo black belt" and "Kimura was a world Jujitsu champion" and "Judo was created to fool the people into thinking they were getting the real techniques of jujitsu" etc people who have spouted that crap for the last 10 years....
    I mean, didn't Helio invent grappling anyway?

    I was just responding to the "Where is all this BJJ = Judo stuff coming from? No one says that!" comment. I'm well aware of all that. I don't think there's anyone who isn't aware of that particular subset of BJJ practitioners, either.

    The samboistas, on the other hand, are quiet. Maybe a little...too quiet.
  6. Dsimon3387 is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2009 1:07pm

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mas View Post
    While the arts are continually evolving, it is interesting and important to chronicle their early links. Practicing Judo and Jiu-jitsu does not connections make, historically or even practically.

    While experts are generally regarded as often more correct than amateurs in matters of history, there are historians that are often plain wrong, and are ignored or minimized. While you may be laughed out of a room of dentists for discussing the finer points of the history of anesthetics, if you read those finer points from a reputable/peer reviewed source you are not (necessarily) wrong.

    In fact, there are many historians who do not believe that there is such a thing called amateur history, ie everyone who embarks upon any historiographical endeavor is a true historian.

    Though there are some historians who are better than others (sometimes way better).
    This point about historians is very important. For example we in the academy assume that historical accounts from other cultures are mythological at times... even when proven otherwise. So we discount many narratives.
  7. Mtripp is online now
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2009 1:10pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    Do you think the changes in match length were driven by the presence of spectators, or by something else?
    No question, people in the seats. Why make it go faster unless people in the stands are unhappy?
  8. Mtripp is online now
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2009 1:10pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBadGuy View Post
    I mean, didn't Helio invent grappling anyway?

    I was just responding to the "Where is all this BJJ = Judo stuff coming from? No one says that!" comment. I'm well aware of all that. I don't think there's anyone who isn't aware of that particular subset of BJJ practitioners, either.

    The samboistas, on the other hand, are quiet. Maybe a little...too quiet.
    Shhh..... you have said too much
  9. DdlR is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2009 1:14pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post

    Houdini used to sit behind the curtain reading a newspaper before he came out... today, he'd move much faster.
    Good point.
  10. DCS is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2009 1:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwan_dao View Post
    On a short lookup (can provide sources tomorrow if need be, got training tonight and am thus off and away now):

    The Meiji government installed an educational system consisting of:

    Primary School (obligatory for everyone)
    Middle School
    University

    This was held up until shortly before WWII. Its a copy of the german system btw.

    No mention of colleges, especially no technical colleges. The full term for them would be "" which is abbreviated as "kosen". Direct translation would be something like "special high-school"?
    Asian Higher Education. An International Handbook and Reference Guide., pg 140.

    There is mention to kōtō-senmongakkō (in pre WWII japanese education system) as schools for those who didn't qualify for university preparatory schools after middle school.

    On the history of Japan's educational system you also have this , from the japanese ministry of education.
    Last edited by DCS; 6/29/2009 1:27pm at . Reason: link to MEXT
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