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  1. #111

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd totally be willing to take on part of it.

  2. #112

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    These are brilliant charts.

  3. #113
    G-Off's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    Man, I'd love to do that. The problem is that the database doesn't have that information. The first 11 UFCs were open weight, then a light/heavy split until UFC 28, then the modern weights after UFC 31, so the pre-31 events would need to be annotated differently, plus many fighters have competed in more than one weight class, so someone would have to add weight class data for each fight in the spreadsheet.

    If some of you guys would be willing to split up the task -- maybe 100 fights each for 12 guys or something -- we could do it, but I'm not up to doing all 1200 myself.
    How would this work? I'd be willing to participate so long as someone can explain to the idiot (me) what we're doing.

  4. #114
    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT supporting member
    Matt Phillips's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    Man, I'd love to do that. The problem is that the database doesn't have that information. The first 11 UFCs were open weight, then a light/heavy split until UFC 28, then the modern weights after UFC 31, so the pre-31 events would need to be annotated differently, plus many fighters have competed in more than one weight class, so someone would have to add weight class data for each fight in the spreadsheet.

    If some of you guys would be willing to split up the task -- maybe 100 fights each for 12 guys or something -- we could do it, but I'm not up to doing all 1200 myself.
    Can I suggest just organizing it by the stated weight class for the subbing fighter? Its not perfect, but the problem becomes tractable for a small loss in accuracy.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
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  5. #115
    Jack Rusher's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey, fellas. I wrote up the fighter-rating methodology and produced some new graphs here.

    WarWheel: the data files are linked at the bottom of the piece if you want to have a go.

    Everyone else: PM me if you'd be willing to help annotate the UFC data with per-fight weight classes. If we can get this done, I'll build an always up-to-date web application that shows who the top fighters are by weight class, both all-time and currently active.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4

  6. #116

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's a fantastic presentation of data. And it's consistent with subjective opinion for the most part. Is there a way to include a time factor? Fighters wax and wane during their careers (e.g. CroCop today is not, seemingly, CroCop in 2004).

  7. #117
    Jack Rusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    That's a fantastic presentation of data.
    Thanks!

    Is there a way to include a time factor? Fighters wax and wane during their careers (e.g. CroCop today is not, seemingly, CroCop in 2004).
    I plan to build a little app that allows one to view ratings within a time window (who was the best from 2001-2004, for instance), and possibly some animations showing fighters drifting up and down in the ratings over time. The latter would be a nice way to extract career narratives from the raw data.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4

  8. #118

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fedor didn't finish everyone but Cro Cop, he didn't Armbar Nog.

  9. #119
    Jack Rusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niethan View Post
    Fedor didn't finish everyone but Cro Cop, he didn't Armbar Nog.
    You're completely correct. I'll go check the data for corruption and re-run the rating algorithm.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4

  10. #120
    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT supporting member
    Matt Phillips's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post

    WarWheel: the data files are linked at the bottom of the piece if you want to have a go.
    Thanks Jack.

    Just thinking out loud -- There are two ways to deal with circular phenomena of this type: One would be to use a formalism that allows circularity to be expressed in a non-degenerate fashion (ie:hypersets), and the other, to classify the individauls into sequential "orders" ala the ramified theory of types.

    The latter approach would be productive, I think. For example instead of regarding Ali, Forman and Frasier as a RPS-type game, one could distinguish between the Frasier that beat Ali (FRASIER-0308071) from the Frasier that lost to Forman (FRASIER-012273). When ALI-103074 beats Forman103074, there is no circularity introduced by the fact the Forman>Frasier>Ali>Foreman, because the first Forman is a different entity than the second.

    <end rant>

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