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  1. Scrapper is offline
    Scrapper's Avatar

    Fear and bullets.

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    Dayville, Connecticut, United States
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    Posted On:
    6/10/2009 8:06am

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Home defense? Mossberg 500 series 12-gauge shotgun.

    Personal carry? .357 magnum, but probably not a beginner's gun. Look at a solid 9mm. IF you have 3-500 bucks to spend, look at the Ruger p95. Great first 9mm. Little weighty, but it helps with recoil and is easier to manage for a beginner. If you have only 200 bucks, Hi-point C9 is a great gun that nobody likes ( Budget Guns Review- Hi-point C-9 - No BS Martial Arts ) just be aware of their issues. If you have 5-600 dollars, the CZ-75 is awesome, but if you can get 7-900 bucks, the Browning High Power is the greatest 9mm ever made.

    Target shooting or skill-building? Ruger 10-22 for rifle and a Ruger MK series for a pistol. Inexpensive plinkers that shoot the world's cheapest ammo. Great for practice.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  2. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2009 9:14pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well I'll throw my hat in the ring.

    Home defense, I'm going shotgun all the way. You can't beat the ease of use and the fear of the sound of the pump action. Mossburg is good and cheap for what you get. After that I'm going with a good full size or 4" revolver. I'm a recent wheel gun convert, but you can't beat the features a revolver gives you for a home defense pistol. First, you don't have to worry about failure to feed like you do with a mag fed pistol. Second, cleaning and maintenance is a lot easier. Finally, I'm still not sure it's good to have a pistol magazine sitting in your drawer under pressure for months at a time. Plus unloading and loading a magazine is a pain. I just feel more confident about having my 357 sitting in the drawer next to my bed then I did with my Springfield XD 9mm. I just bought a S&W 686+ and I love it. With 357 revolvers you can fire 38 special, 38 special +P and 357 rounds. This means in this current environment where ammo is short you don't have to worry about tracking down just one ammo type for some range time.

    For a personal defense carry weapon I can not stress the Walther PPS enough. It's cheap, small, and fires either 9mm or 40. The weapon stays fairly clean after a good range session, it's easy to control, and the lightest most slim pistol I've carried. I've had my carry permit for 6 months now and tried a 4" Springfield XD, a glock 19, and a Springfield XD compact. I couldn't hide them as well as I liked. With my PPS it's 100% invisible even in shorts and a small tshirt. Another plus is the trigger. It's snappier then the XD or glock. By that I mean it takes more pressure to squeeze. I really love the feel of this trigger. I don't even like shooting my XD anymore and I used to love that pistol. The PPS was designed for carry. It has no square or pointed edges, everything is round, all the controls are flush, there is no accidental buttons to push. Finally they moved the mag release and built it into the trigger guard. I LOVE this setup. It has improved my reload times drastically. I'm also a fan of the takedown lever and replaceable backstrap. The backstrap functions as a trigger lock and decocker. So you can just pop off the backstrap and your gone is 100% secured. It can not be cocked or fired without it. Some people discount this gem because it's a 8 shot single stack 9mm or a 7 shot single stack 40. But if you really need more bullets you are probably not in a self defense situation imho.

    On the fullsized pistol market I highly recommend the Walther P99. I've shot it twice and I love it way more then my XD. I'm actually trying to sell my XD now to buy the P99. The P99 has all the features of the PPS, but in a full sized double stacked pistol. This gun also carries really well because of all the features of the PPS that are integrated with it. I plan to use this as my winter carry. It's about $100.00 more then a XD or glock, but well worth it.

    Finally, glocks are great pistols, but do not discount Springfield XD's or any pistol made by Sig Sauer. The sig's are much more expensive, but imho well worth it. XD's are priced in the glock range and are a great alternative. With glocks it's either love it or hate it. I personally do not like glocks, I do not like their triggers or their grip angles. I would take an XD over a glock any day. I have friends that feel like me, and friends that feel the exact opposite. I suggest trying them both. You may find you prefer a trigger or grip angle on one over the other.

    I'd shy away from a 1911 style pistol for your first gun. I think they are just too complicated for a beginner and the large caliber is intimidating and leads to bad habits. I tell most people to buy a 22 as their first pistol. You can buy hundreds of rounds for next to nothing and develop good trigger habits. I recommend the ruger mark III (although its a bitch to clean) or a mark II if you can find one. If you want something that feels more like a 'real' pistol you can check out the walther p22 or sig mosquito. The P22 has a threaded barrel so you can switch from 5" to 3" on the fly.

    Don't let anyone tell you that a 22 isn't dangerous. I've seen many news stories about people killed by 22's. At close range they can be just as deadly. Last night on cops a guy was killed by a 22 shot to the heart. I know guys who carry 22's and .32's.

    So I guess I'm saying if you can, but a 22 and a shotgun. Then move from there. If you are going to carry buy a walther pps.

    Oh yea, and if you do carry or plan to use a gun for self defense in the home, make sure you shoot it a LOT with the rounds you plan to shoot at people. That way you will actually be skilled with it.
    "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki
  3. Kubili is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2009 10:45pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Searching

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have enjoyed firing a 9 mm Beretta over the last few years. My Winchester 12 gauge is fun in the field and at the trap range. You should look for a local shooting club and see if they have a beginner class. Our local pistol club has one every two months. You provide a small fee (to cover the ammo) they teach you how to shoot a variety of pistols. The NRA also run an excellent beginners course.
  4. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2009 1:11am

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    + for Mossberg for home defense. I don't get the big attitude about Rem 870 versus Moss 500/590 (well, I do actually, it's snobby **** mostly about being able to afford a Wingmaster).
    The M500 & 590 are quite excellent guns, besides that I heard that NYPD picked up the M590 to replace their old Ithaca shotguns (some big shoes to fill). The price diff is negligible, Rem VS Moss, and NYPD can most assuredly pay a little more for a Remington if it really was that much more gun.

    EDIT: Oh, & I love the BS about the Mossberg Aluminum receiver. "Oh, it's aluminum, not steel like an 870." Of course, I always say,"Okay, so go find me someone who's worn out a 500 receiver. Please, find me someone."
    ***crickets chirp***

    ^_^
    Last edited by Jim_Jude; 6/11/2009 1:14am at .
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  5. Sealknife is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2009 1:33am


     Style: ex-wrestling, boxing newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I love my XD 40 Service!
  6. Don Gwinn is online now
    Don Gwinn's Avatar

    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2009 8:17am

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're set on the Glock, look at a Glock 19 before anything else. You should easily be able to rent one and put 50-100 rounds through it before you buy one. Do that and be honest with yourself, because using the thing is different than seeing it around and thinking it looks cool. I have a Glock 30 I traded for sight unseen because I had a USP .45 that was just too huge to fit my hand. Although it's had a little work done to relieve the bottom of the trigger guard and other areas, it's just too brick-like. When I picked up a 1911 and used it, I had to have it.

    Your preference could easily be the opposite, so do yourself a favor and find out. If you find you don't love the Glock, there are a lot of choices that will feel very different in the hand, point differently, but be just as tough and the same or more capacity as a Glock. The Springfield Armory XD is one, and it's available in similar sizes.

    If you want the Glock, 9mm will be the simplest and cheapest caliber after the current shortage of ammunition ends. Ironically, the easiest to find right now might be .45GAP, which was hardest to find before the shortage because of low demand for the newfangled cartridge. But it will go back to being the rarest once the manufacturers catch up to the shortage. Some would also argue that the Glocks on the standard frame were originally designed for 9mm, so where some have concerns about KaBooms with .40 or .357, the 9mm has never had that problem.

    Your size choices in 9mm boil down to these:

    Glock 17 (standard, full-size, service pistol--what Glock expected uniformed police to carry.)

    Glock 19 (Compact, slightly smaller than the 17, probably the best all-around size--smaller to carry, bigger to shoot. Many police carry this model instead of the 17.)

    Glock 26 (Sub-compact, smaller than the 19. I don't recommend this; it's sized to be easy to carry, but not to be easy to shoot well. It's accurate, but it's more of a challenge for the shooter. Shorter sights, fewer rounds, more recoil, and less grip.)

    Glock 34 (Long slide competition model, like a 17 with a longer barrel and slide. Easiest to shoot well, hardest to conceal and carry. I don't really recommend this, either, unless you're going to keep this gun at home.)


    The Wikipedia entry for the Glock 17 has the chart of all the different models at the bottom:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock_17
    *********************************************
  7. IMightBeWrong is offline
    IMightBeWrong's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2009 10:18am


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gwinn View Post
    If you're set on the Glock, look at a Glock 19 before anything else. You should easily be able to rent one and put 50-100 rounds through it before you buy one. Do that and be honest with yourself, because using the thing is different than seeing it around and thinking it looks cool. I have a Glock 30 I traded for sight unseen because I had a USP .45 that was just too huge to fit my hand. Although it's had a little work done to relieve the bottom of the trigger guard and other areas, it's just too brick-like. When I picked up a 1911 and used it, I had to have it.

    Your preference could easily be the opposite, so do yourself a favor and find out. If you find you don't love the Glock, there are a lot of choices that will feel very different in the hand, point differently, but be just as tough and the same or more capacity as a Glock. The Springfield Armory XD is one, and it's available in similar sizes.

    If you want the Glock, 9mm will be the simplest and cheapest caliber after the current shortage of ammunition ends. Ironically, the easiest to find right now might be .45GAP, which was hardest to find before the shortage because of low demand for the newfangled cartridge. But it will go back to being the rarest once the manufacturers catch up to the shortage. Some would also argue that the Glocks on the standard frame were originally designed for 9mm, so where some have concerns about KaBooms with .40 or .357, the 9mm has never had that problem.

    Your size choices in 9mm boil down to these:

    Glock 17 (standard, full-size, service pistol--what Glock expected uniformed police to carry.)

    Glock 19 (Compact, slightly smaller than the 17, probably the best all-around size--smaller to carry, bigger to shoot. Many police carry this model instead of the 17.)

    Glock 26 (Sub-compact, smaller than the 19. I don't recommend this; it's sized to be easy to carry, but not to be easy to shoot well. It's accurate, but it's more of a challenge for the shooter. Shorter sights, fewer rounds, more recoil, and less grip.)

    Glock 34 (Long slide competition model, like a 17 with a longer barrel and slide. Easiest to shoot well, hardest to conceal and carry. I don't really recommend this, either, unless you're going to keep this gun at home.)


    The Wikipedia entry for the Glock 17 has the chart of all the different models at the bottom:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock_17
    The myths about .40 cal Glocks having dangerous problems are just that - a load of BS. Its one of MANY ridiculous rumors floating around the gun world, such as that the Nambu pistol has a ton of problems even though it is considered the 1911 of Japanese pistols. People like to see something happen once so that they can say it happens all the time, and that's pretty much what happened with the .40 Glock.

    Although for people who want a gun that won't explode in your hand, avoid the following platforms:
    1911:
    http://i44.tinypic.com/2lbm6gn.jpg
    http://i44.tinypic.com/n32qrk.jpg
    USP
    http://i44.tinypic.com/19atrn.jpg
    SIG
    http://i42.tinypic.com/11qlj4z.jpg
    XD
    http://i42.tinypic.com/2621u6s.jpg

    And many others!
    "Intelligence is nothing more than discussing things with others. Limitless wisdom comes of this." - 山本 常朝
  8. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2009 11:17am

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zaohu View Post
    The myths about .40 cal Glocks having dangerous problems are just that - a load of BS. Its one of MANY ridiculous rumors floating around the gun world, such as that the Nambu pistol has a ton of problems even though it is considered the 1911 of Japanese pistols. People like to see something happen once so that they can say it happens all the time, and that's pretty much what happened with the .40 Glock.

    Although for people who want a gun that won't explode in your hand, avoid the following platforms:
    1911:
    http://i44.tinypic.com/2lbm6gn.jpg
    http://i44.tinypic.com/n32qrk.jpg
    USP
    http://i44.tinypic.com/19atrn.jpg
    SIG
    http://i42.tinypic.com/11qlj4z.jpg
    XD
    http://i42.tinypic.com/2621u6s.jpg

    And many others!
    AGREED.

    However.... if you spend $500+ on a modern handgun from a popular manufacturer, & it suffers a catastrophic failure such as those pictured above, NON-FACTORY AMMO is almost always to blame. Guys playing with overpowered handloads. Don't believe me? Ask ANY reputable gun smith (not a gun dealer, they'll naysay anything that they DON'T SELL. Take anything a gun dealer says with a grain of salt)
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  9. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2009 2:16pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude View Post
    AGREED.

    However.... if you spend $500+ on a modern handgun from a popular manufacturer, & it suffers a catastrophic failure such as those pictured above, NON-FACTORY AMMO is almost always to blame. Guys playing with overpowered handloads. Don't believe me? Ask ANY reputable gun smith (not a gun dealer, they'll naysay anything that they DON'T SELL. Take anything a gun dealer says with a grain of salt)
    Abso-friggin'-lutely. Don't ever listen to what people have to say to bash another weapon. Always try to separate the legitimate criticisms from the BS spewed out against a weapon. Usually malfunctions are either the fault of ammo, or the fault of the shooter for improperly handling the weapon.

    Keep in mind, all firearms are machines, and any machine can fail, even a revolver can have a malfunction.
    "Intelligence is nothing more than discussing things with others. Limitless wisdom comes of this." - 山本 常朝
  10. JanusMagus is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2009 2:40pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for all the help, guys. What price should I not ever go [above] when buying a glock 19? (because I am sure to a gun salesman I look like a sucker).

    Also, the local gunshop here says they're out of glocks because the manufacturer ran out. How can I go about buying one otherwise (that can be trusted)?
    Last edited by JanusMagus; 6/11/2009 2:46pm at .
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