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  1. dig7six is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2009 5:05pm

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    My intro and thoguhts on Tai Chi

    Quote Originally Posted by cafezinho View Post
    Looking at the fight videos, I'm still unsure as to how the techniques and movements performed in the sparring bare any relationship to the techniques demonstrated in the solo forms and push hands.
    Well, im no expert obviosuly, but from my understanding the forms while they absolutley were originally designed to instill techniques, the whole idea of Tajiqaun is to not "stagnate" the "internal flow", thats why the forms practices are so important and done so slow in Taiji, in order to concentrate on full body relaxation and "whole body power", what we today would call using the core muscles, in Taiji that has to be threaded in one smotth cycle starting from the feet , directed by the waist and then "expressed" through the hands.

    Traditionally, single patterns of movement were learned and repeated over and over until mastered, only then was the next pattern taught. Once the student had mastered an entire sequence of movements individually, the movements were taught in a linked sequence (a 'set'). The goal of training is to cultivate a kind of 'whole body' power. This refers to the ability to generate power with the entire body, making full use of one's whole body mass .

    once you get into the "fajing" or explosive movement there will be tension at the second before impact,..pretty common theory in alot of arts, boxing even as i understand it aims for a whip like motion with the hips "snapping the punches". the forms are trained at a slow pace to learn proper movent and whole body application, but once you got that Taiji is to become very fast, a relaxed body moves much faster than a tense one..hence the aim of the practice.

    Another hallmark of Tai Ji Quan as a combat art is that it has, as its foundation, the principle of natural movement. All the movements and techniques of the Tai Ji Quan Arts are based upon natural strengths and reactions. Because training is less a matter of conditioning new responses as refining inborn abilities, real fighting ability can be cultivated.

    "All Tai Ji Quan techniques are combinations of the energies of the Eight Techniques: ward off, roll back, press, push, pluck, split, elbow and body stroke [peng, lu, ji, an, cai, lie, zhou, kao]. In its broadest sense, ward off energy can he applied to the whole body. It is the energy resulting from proper alignment and relaxation which gives the Tai Ji Quan fighter the elasticity and springiness necessary to fight. In a stricter, technical sense, ward off is the energy which supplies buoyancy and supports weight (as soft and flexible water is able to support a massive ship). Roll back is energy which moves incoming force past one's body toward the rear (as a revolving door gives way and pivots around its center). Press is the force which rebounds from the ground up in a pulse and bounces the opponent away from the body (as a rock bounces off the taught head of a drum). Push is a force which puts pressure downward (like the force used when you lift your body out of a pool by pressing the palms down on the outside deck). Pluck is a sudden, downward jerking force towards the rear of one's own body (like the force used to pluck an apple from a tree). Split is the energy of coupling (force applied in parallel but opposite directions which causes a rotation around their center point); it is the force generated when you turn a steering wheel with both hands on the sides of the wheel. Elbow is whole body ward off power focused through the elbow (think of closing a car door with your elbow when your hands are full). Body stroke is whole body ward off power channeled through some part of the torso, usually the shoulder (think of breaking a door down by leaning into it with your shoulder). All the various techniques of Tai Ji Quan, including throwing, locking, kicking and striking, are combinations of these eight energies."

    But like mentioned and common knowledge, finding someone who really teaches this aspect of it isnt easy to do, mostly the Chen styles are more fight minded.

    YouTube - Chen Style Yilu Detailed Applications DVD 4

    YouTube - tai ji quan chen style tino wong

    Really could be pretty cool stuff , would be good for self-defence because if attacked simply pushing a guy over and giving you a chance to run the hell away, would keep you out of prison, and with the laws the way they are today..its almost safer to loose a fight versus going to prison, plus it does have plenty of health benifiets..kinda one of the few "arts" that aim to encompass the whole life aspect.
    Last edited by dig7six; 6/04/2009 5:07pm at .
  2. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2009 5:15pm

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    You might look into more pithy explanations for future posts. Your points are rambling and tangential to the thread.

    Plus, your analysis of taiji sounds like you think it's a mystical energy force. This site is not Star Wars.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2009 5:30pm

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    I recently got my .45 out of storage. Please, don't make my first usage be on myself.
  4. dig7six is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2009 8:32pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    You might look into more pithy explanations for future posts. Your points are rambling and tangential to the thread.

    Plus, your analysis of taiji sounds like you think it's a mystical energy force. This site is not Star Wars.
    you can call it whatever you want. i do apologize if it was rambling , that wasnt intended. But sometimes in order to convey the entire idea behind something takes a bit more room. I dont believe in mystical chi or anything remotley close as a matter of a fact.But western science has proved what the early chinese believed to be qi is factual, it is called bioelectricity, we all have that and if you take the time to look into its studies, and that is studies done from stanford, harvard etc..you will see that qi or bioelectricity does exist and enhance movement. the chinese had little knowledge of electricity at that time and as a result called it qi, bioelectricity is what allows a electric eel to produce a shock, as well as other functions for different animals, does that mean i believe in throwing fire balls ? No.

    Truthfully, i feel that if you had any idea what YOU were talking about, or even better, if you had anything better to do with your time, you wouldnt be concerned about what i had to say to anwser a question to the best of my abilities on a subject that you have no idea about.

    P.s Taiji is no more mystical than judo, same ideas..the only silly thing in real Taiji is the chin na applications, which in the Yang styles have been completely taking out, because we dont fight with weapons anymore, they made sense then.
  5. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2009 10:58pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by dig7six View Post
    you can call it whatever you want. i do apologize if it was rambling , that wasnt intended. But sometimes in order to convey the entire idea behind something takes a bit more room. I dont believe in mystical chi or anything remotley close as a matter of a fact.But western science has proved what the early chinese believed to be qi is factual, it is called bioelectricity, we all have that and if you take the time to look into its studies, and that is studies done from stanford, harvard etc..you will see that qi or bioelectricity does exist and enhance movement. the chinese had little knowledge of electricity at that time and as a result called it qi, bioelectricity is what allows a electric eel to produce a shock, as well as other functions for different animals, does that mean i believe in throwing fire balls ? No.

    Truthfully, i feel that if you had any idea what YOU were talking about, or even better, if you had anything better to do with your time, you wouldnt be concerned about what i had to say to anwser a question to the best of my abilities on a subject that you have no idea about.

    P.s Taiji is no more mystical than judo, same ideas..the only silly thing in real Taiji is the chin na applications, which in the Yang styles have been completely taking out, because we dont fight with weapons anymore, they made sense then.
    You are wrong except for the bolded statements. Your talk of bioelectricity is a cocktail of pseudoscience, flim-flammery, complete rejection of scientific method, and willful ignorance.

    Chin Na within valid CMA is kinda cool.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2009 11:26pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by dig7six View Post
    you can call it whatever you want. i do apologize if it was rambling , that wasnt intended. But sometimes in order to convey the entire idea behind something takes a bit more room. I dont believe in mystical chi or anything remotley close as a matter of a fact.But western science has proved what the early chinese believed to be qi is factual, it is called bioelectricity, we all have that and if you take the time to look into its studies, and that is studies done from stanford, harvard etc..you will see that qi or bioelectricity does exist and enhance movement. the chinese had little knowledge of electricity at that time and as a result called it qi, bioelectricity is what allows a electric eel to produce a shock, as well as other functions for different animals, does that mean i believe in throwing fire balls ? No.
    Hello, welcome to bullshido. I need sources for this ASAP.


    Truthfully, i feel that if you had any idea what YOU were talking about, or even better, if you had anything better to do with your time, you wouldnt be concerned about what i had to say to anwser a question to the best of my abilities on a subject that you have no idea about.
    Hold on? You post on a forum, that deals with the written word, and you are offended at someone critiquing and asking for a better explanation?


    Wow. You will not like bullshido. You might want to go somewhere else. 1point2 was actually nice compared to most.
    P.s Taiji is no more mystical than judo, same ideas..the only silly thing in real Taiji is the chin na applications, which in the Yang styles have been completely taking out, because we dont fight with weapons anymore, they made sense then.
    Ho boy the forms were for weapons argument?

    I moving this to newbietown so your intro is somewhat painless.

    I'm willing to bet this will be in YMAS before to long.
    Tai Chi Combat- yea...... - Page 5 - No BS Martial Arts
  7. Kubili is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2009 7:21pm

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    I think adding all of the chi mystical health stuff to tai chi has watered down the art.
  8. Randen222 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2009 10:13pm

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     Style: Tai chi chuan

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    Tai chi can be used for combat if you train in a realistic combative way. In short don't get caught up in all the mystical b.s. You still have to do physical condtioning besides the form itself and internal exercises.
  9. Monkfg is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 5:25pm


     

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    Another hallmark of Tai Ji Quan as a combat art is that it has, as its foundation, the principle of natural movement. All the movements and techniques of the Tai Ji Quan Arts are based upon natural strengths and reactions. Because training is less a matter of conditioning new responses as refining inborn abilities, real fighting ability can be cultivated.
    Hey, that's exactly how I think of it. Thanks for this summary!
  10. JP is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2009 5:35pm

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    Oh dear, attack of the noobs.

    "Another hallmark of Tai Ji Quan as a combat art is that it has, as its foundation, the principle of natural movement. All the movements and techniques of the Tai Ji Quan Arts are based upon natural strengths and reactions. Because training is less a matter of conditioning new responses as refining inborn abilities, real fighting ability can be cultivated."

    I don't practice Tai Chi.

    However, you're going to run into trouble and people mercilessly running your arguments though a woodchipper if you keep making statements like the above in bold.

    That's a hallmark of every effective system under the sun, the cultivation of natural movements.

    And the effective Tai Chi that I've seen and crossed hands with has had very little to separate it from good standing judo or good standing wrestling. Whether one was to mix in hitting or not. It's a different approach, or flavor to the same problem.

    Notice how all wheels are round, even if the spokes or hubcaps look different?
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
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    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
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    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
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