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  1. apollyondestrud is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 10:30am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: DZR JJJ / MMA noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Whey v. Weight Gainer

    I don't know much in the way of supplementation, but enough to know that a high quality whey is going to trump a high caloric weight gainer 9 times out of 10, however...

    The other day I ran my personal gauntlet: Up at 4:30am, weight training, work, and lastly four hours of MA. My schedule was so tight that there was little room to devote any kind of substantial nutrition to fuel my activities, so I'm certain I burned more than I took in, which is pretty counter-productive when trying to gain muscle mass.

    I start everyday off with 50g of whey mixed in with my morning coffee and 10oz of water. Should I substitute a high calorie weight gainer for the days I'm going to lift and train MA?
  2. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 12:23pm

    supporting member
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's just food man. Eat more of it.

    Hell, take the protein and the weight gainer.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  3. muddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 3:24pm


     Style: boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Eat some real food. The weight gainer type products are just buckets of sugar from what Ive seen (not sure about the specific one your refering to).
  4. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 5:10pm

    supporting member
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Given the choice between a lot of protein and a lot of sugar, your body will thank you for the protein and curse you for the sugar. The gainer might "help" you by spiking the **** out of your insulin, thereby causing you to retain all the calories as fat.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


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  5. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 5:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    Eat some real food. The weight gainer type products are just buckets of sugar from what Ive seen (not sure about the specific one your refering to).
    Depends on the brand. Serious Mass and Cyto Gainer are both pretty low in sugar.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  6. muddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 8:46pm


     Style: boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Depends on the brand. Serious Mass and Cyto Gainer are both pretty low in sugar.

    But they just have maltodextrin instead, which as I understand it is as nutritionally useless as sugars. This is actually almost more of a question than a statement as I havent had the need to thoroughly research it due to a mistrust of anything that is over processed.

    Why not just eat up a shitload of oatmeal, quinoa, lentils, nuts, etc? ... besides being good for you I suspect its a lot cheaper.
  7. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 8:58pm

    supporting member
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    But they just have maltodextrin instead, which as I understand it is as nutritionally useless as sugars. This is actually almost more of a question than a statement as I havent had the need to thoroughly research it due to a mistrust of anything that is over processed.

    Why not just eat up a shitload of oatmeal, quinoa, lentils, nuts, etc? ... besides being good for you I suspect its a lot cheaper.

    I'm talking total carbs dude. Check the nutritional labels on both. It's maybe 32 grams of sugar per serving. You get worse in a coke.

    There's a lot to be said about dextrose and maltodextrin. Some say that the two are essential vehicles to delivering protein to muscles, others say it's nutrition voodoo.

    Regaring cheaper, I'd say in a price per calorie ratio, a gainer is typically gonna win. Besides, why not just mix the gainer with oatmeal, nuts, etc?

    There's nothing magical about weight gainers. It's usually a lot of brown rice powder with a protein blend of whey/cassean/whathave you and some other stuff.

    Like I said, it's food, don't overthink it too much.
    Last edited by Emevas; 6/03/2009 9:02pm at .
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  8. muddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 9:58pm


     Style: boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    I'm talking total carbs dude. Check the nutritional labels on both. It's maybe 32 grams of sugar per serving. You get worse in a coke.

    There's a lot to be said about dextrose and maltodextrin. Some say that the two are essential vehicles to delivering protein to muscles, others say it's nutrition voodoo.

    Regaring cheaper, I'd say in a price per calorie ratio, a gainer is typically gonna win. Besides, why not just mix the gainer with oatmeal, nuts, etc?

    There's nothing magical about weight gainers. It's usually a lot of brown rice powder with a protein blend of whey/cassean/whathave you and some other stuff.

    Like I said, it's food, don't overthink it too much.
    Assuming I didnt make a mistake:

    150 g Cyto Gainer - $2
    calories 580
    Protein 54 g
    Carbs 79 g
    Fat 5 g
    Sugar 6 g
    Fiber 1 g

    2 cups oats - $1.12
    calories 600
    Protein 20 g
    Carbs 108 g
    Fat 12 g
    Sugar 4 g
    Fiber 16 g
  9. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2009 12:20am

    Join us... or die
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by apollyondestrud View Post
    I don't know much in the way of supplementation, but enough to know that a high quality whey is going to trump a high caloric weight gainer 9 times out of 10, however...
    I suggest you discard this notion for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by apollyondestrud View Post
    The other day I ran my personal gauntlet: Up at 4:30am, weight training, work, and lastly four hours of MA. My schedule was so tight that there was little room to devote any kind of substantial nutrition to fuel my activities, so I'm certain I burned more than I took in, which is pretty counter-productive when trying to gain muscle mass.

    I start everyday off with 50g of whey mixed in with my morning coffee and 10oz of water. Should I substitute a high calorie weight gainer for the days I'm going to lift and train MA?
    Four hours a day of martial arts plus weight training... and no "substantial nutrition"? That's a recipe for muscle loss.

    ---

    Morning whey isn't a bad idea, but the caloric content isn't a whole lot. 50g whey = 200 kcal, which is more like 150kcal after conversion loss. And the reason people make such a big deal about whey (aside from the fact that it's a byproduct of cheese manufacture, and therefore cheap) is because it's fast. If you want to spike your amino acid levels quickly and for a short period of time, whey is great.

    If, however, you're looking for something to keep you fed for hours, rather than minutes, you'll want something substantial. Some combination of slow-digesting protein, fat, and soluble fiber would probably do the trick. If you're not carb-restricted (and with your activity level, I can't see that being a problem), you can get your soluble fiber along with a solid dose of starch in the form of oats.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  10. apollyondestrud is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2009 2:13pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: DZR JJJ / MMA noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Of the two products below is either worth the coin? They appear to offer the protein and carbs I'm looking to supplement my diet with, but I don't want to jump into bed with one or the other without getting an educated opinion on it first.

    http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp...168524.2169546

    http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp...168524.2169546
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