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  1. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    2,290

    Posted On:
    6/04/2009 10:34am

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Muerteds View Post
    As I understand it, judicial dueling wasn't something you lightly entered into. If you were not expected to be a combatant, such as a female, you would hire a combatant. You would kneel beside the field with a man standing behind you, holding a garrote around your neck. Should your combatant lose, you would find yourself quickly strangled to death.

    Professional combatants for hire with winning records were highly sought-after.
    Have you got a source for this anecdote? Not because I don't believe you but because I'd like to read up more on the practice.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  2. Muerteds is offline

    Registered Member

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    Nov 2008
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    Honolulu, HI (Hawaii Kai)
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2009 10:47am


     Style: Itinerant Wanderer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would like to read up on it, too. Unfortunately, I got that from a History Channel show on legal disputes. I'm not sure where they got that information from.
  3. willaume is offline

    Registered Member

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    Oct 2006
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    windsor UK
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2009 1:01pm


     Style: aikido, medieval fencing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hello
    this what i have found on the topic
    judicial duel varied from country to country. Judicial duel could only be invoqued in 7 cases 6 related to treason/spying and the 7th being rape.
    the case was presented to a juge /jury and judical duel was invoked only if there was no way to judge and both party stuck to their story.
    Usually member of the clergy would be exempted as they depended on clerical law and not common law.

    Basically a capital crime so it was always to the death. Even if you yield you would be executed, usually in an unpleasant manner.

    You were given a period of about 3 month to prepare.
    A fair amount of the fencing manuscript we have, describe how sir X, tutored by master Y twated sir Z.
    This is the case for the, Paulus Kal, thallhoffer, gladoria and so on.
    http://mdz1.bib-bvb.de/~db/bsb000018...ges/index.html

    For the Gentry
    In “Germany” it was usually on foot and the traditional weapons were the spear, sword and dagger. (And ringen of course).

    In France (and country that modelled their chivalry on it)
    The judial duel started on horse, and normal knighs weapons were permited.
    Lance longs word, hammer dagger.

    By the mid 1400 noble axe (i.e. a posh halberd) seems to have been used on foot.

    Common people were given weapons like hooked shield, shield and mace, armour piercing sword, messer.
    In the case of a man vs a woman there was a special procedure the man was waist deep in a hole and had a stick the woman was out and had a rock in a socks.


    The Thallhoffer from 1459 thott edition has a reasonably good explanation of the circumstance and the process of judicial Dual
    http://www.flaez.ch/talhoffer/

    The arma has done a translation in English.
    http://freifechter.com/tag/view_item.cfm?itemid=8

    phil
    Last edited by willaume; 6/04/2009 1:05pm at .
  4. willaume is offline

    Registered Member

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    Location
    windsor UK
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2009 1:15pm


     Style: aikido, medieval fencing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    Have you got a source for this anecdote? Not because I don't believe you but because I'd like to read up more on the practice.
    Well every crime that caused the trial had a legal standard punishment, yielding is an acknowledgment of guilt. So the sentence would be carried out.

    If you had a champion and that champion lost, this would be the proof that you are guilty and the sentence would be carried out.

    I did not find any trace of garrotting, other than a Spanish was of execution in the 16th cent.

    Before it came to the duel, you had to swear 3 times you were telling the truth, and if you were found guilty you would have perjured you in front of men and god. The price for that was usually being burned alive.

    In France treason, was punished by having your head cut off.
    In England it was usually being hanged, drawn and quartered.
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