Paper, rock, scissors, weapons discussion!

**jspeedy** · Posted On: 5/16/2011 12:51am

This post is intended to discuss weapons and weapons systems from all martial arts styles excluding guns, bombs, tanks, and obvious stuff that kills everything (which isn't associated with a specific system or style).

Paper beats rock but scissors beats paper. Everyone knows this "natural law". But does it equate to any weapons systems in real life?

My question is are there any weapons you can think of that are best suited to overcome another specific weapon but not well suited to fight against any other given weapon? To clarify my point; what weapons can you think of that are specifically used to overcome another weapon?

One example I can think of is the jutte, which I'm not rather learned on but i've heard it discussed on multiple occasions by people who probably know less about the weapon than me that the jutte's specialty is trapping/controlling swords and possibly breaking them(?) But I would think the weapon would be more cumbersome against another weapon perhaps a spear?

My example, is horrible and involves a lot of speculation. Perhaps a better example would be a longe range weapon like a bow and arrow that will easily overcome a sword at long range but is less effective against a swordsmen with a shield who can close that range. I'd hate to turn this discussion into a dorkfest of liklihood and probability. I'm more interested in learning about obscure weapons that may have been specifically designed to combat another weapon.

I was hoping to find a specific forum on this site to keep this thread somewhat serious and possibly even informative to some. But alas this post didn't seem to apply to any one specific discipline of the listed forums, so YMAs it is.

**Johnny Y.** · Posted On: 5/16/2011 1:40am

Kusarigama--Japanese peasant weapon, the fusion of an agricultural implement and a weighted chain.

The chain's for tangling around a sword or spear, then doing the slashy, slashy with the sickle part.

Some of the African throwing knifes were designed to hit shields, and pivot over the top, hitting the shield-bearer behind them.

**Colin** · Posted On: 5/16/2011 7:44am

I'm thinking dagger, sword/shield, and spear.

grappling range, the dagger wins, striking range the sword/shield wins, and long range the spear wins.. right?

Can we make rock/scissors/paper comparison without mentioning range? I think we need to specify range in order for the weapons to have context.

**donoraen** · Posted On: 5/16/2011 7:53am

How about something like the tekpi or sai that was supposed to break swords and hook limbs, vrs. a long hammer type weapon?

**tao.jonez** · Posted On: 5/16/2011 9:15am

In video games rapier, broadsword & katana work like that

Rapier which is fast and hits before
Broadsword which is strong and breaks through
Katana which is stronger than, and quick enough to counter
Rapier...

More serious than it sounds, the varying types of swords were (as I understand) created to counter the properties of one another.

The esoteric weapons like halberds and hooked spears had their weaknesses which is why many (most?) users carried supplemental weapons. Halberdiers were good at fighting mounted swordsmen, but they switched to closer ranged weapons for infantry - typically a short sword.

And to Colin's point, range is vital. Crossbow vs Tomahawk vs Garotte just doesn't work.

**Bneterasedmynam** · Posted On: 5/16/2011 11:40am

Sounds like someones been watching deadliest warrior lol.

**SBG-ape** · Posted On: 5/16/2011 7:06pm

If you look at medieval & renaissance warfare, you see that cavalry beat infantry swordsmen & pikes beat cavalry but weren’t mobile enough to be effective against the sword-wielding infantrymen.

**jspeedy** · Posted On: 5/16/2011 8:33pm

COngrats bullshidoka! I'm surprised this post has stayed on topic this long without turning into a lol-fest.

Originally Posted by Colin

I'm thinking dagger, sword/shield, and spear.

grappling range, the dagger wins, striking range the sword/shield wins, and long range the spear wins.. right?

Can we make rock/scissors/paper comparison without mentioning range? I think we need to specify range in order for the weapons to have context.

I agree, I think I kind of overlooked this factor in the OP but had it in mind. Both of my examples were completely different. I suppose that the specificity of a weapon within a range against another makes for a better discussion. It is still interesting to hear about halbirds vs. mounted knights and what weapons have been designed to overcome a certain disadvantage be it range or something else.

Originally Posted by donoraen

How about something like the tekpi or sai that was supposed to break swords and hook limbs, vrs. a long hammer type weapon?

I'm especially interested in weapons that claim to be able to break swords. I've read about oak staffs shattering blades and whatnot. But i'm not that informed on the subject. Are there weapons that are proven able to break swords is is this all just anecdotal urban legend?

**bobyclumsyninja** · Posted On: 5/16/2011 9:27pm

Originally Posted by jspeedy

COngrats bullshidoka! I'm surprised this post has stayed on topic this long without turning into a lol-fest.

woa, woa...if I'm not mistaken, Bullshido posters are Bullies, Bullshidoka are those who LARP, and frequent MAP, or something.

Let's not damn with faint praise here.

now...back on direct-topic...pray continue.

**Colin** · Posted On: 5/16/2011 11:57pm

Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja

woa, woa...if I'm not mistaken, Bullshido posters are Bullies, Bullshidoka are those who LARP, and frequent MAP, or something.

Let's not damn with faint praise here.

now...back on direct-topic...pray continue.

I've got "bullshidoka" written in my signature. It's part of the joke, but yeah, you're right. Bullshidoka are practitioners of bullshit martial arts, bullies are the ones calling those noobs out.

I call myself a bullshidoka because I'm STILL full of ****.