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  1. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2009 7:05pm


     Style: gah, transition again

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tangshou View Post
    Thanks for the posts. It costs somewhere around $10.

    I'm not a vegan and not currently vegetarian, but I like the idea of eating lower on the food chain.

    I was not aware of differences between proteins except for which amino acids they contain. I'll have to look into the soy thing. Besides the estrogen what's wrong with soy? Will my breasts go away or will I be stacked like Meatloaf?
    I'm yet to see it happen myself but some high-powered individuals in the industry warn against phytoestrogen loaded soy for fear of bitch tits/ because a strength athlete needs all the damn testosterone he can get.

    Edit: You said not currently vegetarian which means you were and may be again. If there is weight to the phytoestrogen thing then maybe your testosterone is a bit low.... Maybe work on that.
    Last edited by socratic; 6/08/2009 7:08pm at .
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
  2. Tex is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2009 8:26pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadmeat View Post
    From what I understand, Whey Protein has the best bioavailability, and so is more readily absorbed by your body.
    Absorption rates are always variable..

    Whey does contain high amounts of amino acids, including the BCAAs.. so, yeah.. It's some pretty good ****.
  3. Tex is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2009 8:32pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by socratic View Post
    I'm yet to see it happen myself but some high-powered individuals in the industry warn against phytoestrogen loaded soy for fear of bitch tits/ because a strength athlete needs all the damn testosterone he can get.

    Edit: You said not currently vegetarian which means you were and may be again. If there is weight to the phytoestrogen thing then maybe your testosterone is a bit low.... Maybe work on that.
    My opinion.. if you're wishy washy about your veggism, then maybe it's more of a health thing than a PETA, paint the fur coat red, kinda deal???..

    If so, then I would just break through the ICE and get some NoXplode and some Whey.. Go for the fucking Gold Pal!!
  4. TheRuss is offline
    TheRuss's Avatar

    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2009 10:42pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadmeat View Post
    From what I understand, Whey Protein has the best bioavailability, and so is more readily absorbed by your body.
    Last I checked, whey, casein, egg white (denatured) and meat all have 90+% bioavailability.

    Whey is readily - that is, quickly - absorbed because the fractions of proteins in whey are relatively small, water-soluble (unlike a steak or a poached egg), don't clot upon contact with stomach acid (unlike casein), and (at least in the isolate form) generally don't contain significant portions of fat or soluble fiber (which slow digestion) or antinutritional factors/insoluble fiber (which reduce bioavailability).

    But faster is not always better. In this case, as a matter of fact, it's probably worse.

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by tangshou View Post
    I'm not on any training regime; I use protein supplements because I don't get enough protein in my diet and don't want to drink a ton of milk.
    The problem is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by tangshou View Post
    I like the idea of eating lower on the food chain.
    You should probably get over that. Because if you don't want to drink milk, there's lots of high-quality protein available in the form of eggs, cheese, and meat.

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha2six View Post
    Whey does contain high amounts of amino acids
    Please scrub the marketing-speak. All proteins are chains of amino acids. That is, unless they're bound to a non-protein cofactor/lipid/carbohydrate, any given protein contains 100% amino acid by weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha2six View Post
    If so, then I would just break through the ICE and get some NoXplode and some Whey.. Go for the fucking Gold Pal!!
    Why would he want to do that? Aside from the issues with NO Xplode in particular, he's not doing any weight training to speak of.

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by socratic View Post
    I'm yet to see it happen myself but some high-powered individuals in the industry warn against phytoestrogen loaded soy for fear of bitch tits/ because a strength athlete needs all the damn testosterone he can get.

    Edit: You said not currently vegetarian which means you were and may be again. If there is weight to the phytoestrogen thing then maybe your testosterone is a bit low.... Maybe work on that.
    I wouldn't worry too much about this. See Kurzer, "Hormonal Effects of Soy in Premenopausal Women and Men".
    Last edited by TheRuss; 6/08/2009 10:45pm at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  5. Tex is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2009 3:38am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    Please scrub the marketing-speak. All proteins are chains of amino acids. That is, unless they're bound to a non-protein cofactor/lipid/carbohydrate, any given protein contains 100% amino acid by weight.
    Thanks Doc.. I appreciate that as much as I'm sure we all do... But.. You omitted my point from your quote. Soy protein does not contain the same amount of BCAAs as Whey. Although Soy does contain like almost 2 X the amount of Glutamine per 100 G of protein, and more than 3 X the Arginine, it falls short in all other factors and EAAs. Tit for Tat?.. nope.. just the Science of it in regards to the marketing... Which, btw, is the primary reason that these products are even in question.

    Whey over Soy.. Hands down, it wins for complete protein.
    ,
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    Why would he want to do that? Aside from the issues with NO Xplode in particular, he's not doing any weight training to speak of.
    What's wrong with NoXplode other than that it gives you jitters and then makes you **** like a Moose?..
  6. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2009 9:58am

    Join us... or die
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by alpha2six View Post
    Thanks Doc.. I appreciate that as much as I'm sure we all do... But.. You omitted my point from your quote. Soy protein does not contain the same amount of BCAAs as Whey.
    TrueProtein Soy Protein Isolate:
    Per 100g of protein (not powder)
    4.1g isoleucine
    7.1g leucine
    4.4g valine

    TrueProtein Whey Protein Isolate Cold-Filtration:
    Per 100g of protein (not powder)
    6.5g isoleucine
    11g leucine
    6.2g valine

    Now, do you know why this is a bad basis for choosing a protein?

    If you want to get 11g of leucine, you can eat 111g of WPI-CF powder, at a cost of roughly $1.92.
    Or you can eat 179g of SPI powder, at a cost of roughly $1.97.

    Five cents difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha2six View Post
    Although Soy does contain like almost 2 X the amount of Glutamine per 100 G of protein, and more than 3 X the Arginine, it falls short in all other factors and EAAs. Tit for Tat?.. nope.. just the Science of it in regards to the marketing... Which, btw, is the primary reason that these products are even in question.
    You're still talking about particular amino acids.
    Why are you still talking about particular amino acids?
    Both soy and whey have complete amino acid profiles.
    Anything more is marketing and pseudoscience.

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha2six View Post
    Whey over Soy.. Hands down, it wins for complete protein.
    Why would a guy want to take a whey protein as a meal? He's going to piss it out in half an hour.

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha2six View Post
    What's wrong with NoXplode other than that it gives you jitters and then makes you **** like a Moose?..
    Why would he conceivably want to take it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
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