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  1. Mufi is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2004 12:42pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting stuff. It's good hear from people who think about things a bit more.

    Do you do anything specifically to develop structure and posture?
    Usually the biggest differences as people improve is their awareness of their own posture. Most Aikidoka seem to spend the first few years of their training learning to stand up straight.
  2. Kyoketsu is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2004 12:46pm


     Style: Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    John, thanks for posting this. It gives me a better idea as to what your Aiki curriculum up at the Dojo is comprised of. I remember watching the Kenjutsu and Jojutsu classes, but didn't stick around for the Aikido class.

    I wish you guys up there let outsiders to the Aiki fold like me take the occasional class without commiting full-time....I already have enough full-time training with the Bujinkan as it is. I've always been interested in the dynamic physics of Aikido....but it's not something I'd like to do as a constant.

    From the way you describe what you're doing there, it sounds like you're inches away in idea, but miles away in application compared to what we're doing. But both sides of the coin are useable.

    I wish you'd come down our way from time to time, we could use an Aikidoka to train with. :P

    ryan
  3. DaveH is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/21/2004 1:00pm


     Style: Aikikai Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    John your thread is making for some very interesting reading, please keep it going however..

    I would take issue with this statement

    Everyone who practices it wants to be a wise old master,
    "Everyone" is a very broad and far too generalised statement to make, perhaps you might have been better saying "Many" or "Some" That said... A minor point but a valid one never the less.

    I do acept that there are *some* aikidoists who like nothing more than the egotistical aspects of wearing a black belt and making sure others call them Sensei and, being perceived as the wise old man of their art. Pure Bullshit as far as I'm concerned but each to their won if you ask me.

    Case in question.

    Mr. Poole, you only have to look at his picture placed on his website. O-sensei impersonator I have no doubt, bald head, grey beard, what more does he need ? lol

    I'm a firm beliver of the saying "There's no such thing as bad students, only bad instructors" Whenever a person walks through the door of an Aikido dojo for the first time he/she generally knows fek all about that their looking at and, importantly how effective their study will be in weeks, months, years ahead. But that could be said for any number of MA's so, it's up to the instructor to teach the right things to deliver what it says over the door of the Dojo.

    I can see your points, both in this thread and in the other "aikido on knees" but I'd rather, with respect, that you didn't make it appear that unless one is challenging either in part or wholly aikido as a discipline, that we are nothing more than "wise old men" wannabies. or that our Aikido will not work in conflictive stituations. Because this isn't the case.

    For some yes, but not "everyone"

    You have stated that Aikido has a "higher perpose" for conflict resolution etc. How many Dojo do you know teach communication skills, and offer seninars on the psychcology of body language ? I havn't yet found one but, In my position as a prison officer those skills were an integral part of my job and, I found many instances where 'talking' the situation out was far more appropriate than fisticuffs. Effective negotiation to resolve conflict is a specialist skill but it isn't part of Aikido as a discipline.

    :)
    Last edited by DaveH; 1/21/2004 1:15pm at .
  4. John A Butz is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2004 1:13pm

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     Style: Various JMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mufi,

    Our kihon excersises work on developing posture, but we don't have any specific methods to teach it. Of course, keeping proper posture is the only way to really make the technique work. So, no we don't have excersise, but we do focus alot on posture.

    Ryan,

    No problem. This is our pet project right now, and it is and will remian an evolving one.

    As far as training, if there is a time that you and I and any others who are interested can agree on, we could have our very own Harrisburg McThrowdown, to train and such. I know that I would be game to come visit you folks, and I will PM you about other possibilities. I you can shot me your location and class schedule, I may be able to find the time to come visit.
  5. fragbot is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2004 1:13pm


     Style: japanese jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "You have stated that Aikido has a "higher perpose" for conflict resolution etc. How many Dojo do you know teach communication skills, and offer seninars on the psychcology of body language ?"

    For sh*t's sake, do you have any idea who his instructor is?

    His instructor deals with mentally ill cum violent people for his profession. Furthermore, his specialty is training *others* how to approach them as well (though it's my quite possibly wrong understanding a good portion of the "cowardly lion" stuff comes from Araki and not his aikido training).
  6. DaveH is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/21/2004 1:16pm


     Style: Aikikai Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    His instructor deals with mentally ill cum violent people for his profession. Furthermore, his specialty is training *others* how to approach them as well (though it's my quite possibly wrong understanding a good portion of the "cowardly lion" stuff comes from Araki and not his aikido training).
    Ok I didn't know that but, one instructor out of how many dojo world wide and although he personally has these skills are they being taught to run alongside the physical techniques. John ?

    ..And please read the part where I expalin my background, both in this thread and the other where John and I have discussed this and other aspects of our aikido in depth. I have a considerable number of years working in an environment where my life and the lives of others are under an underlying threat.
    Last edited by DaveH; 1/21/2004 1:23pm at .
  7. Budd is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2004 1:21pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by fragbot

    His instructor deals with mentally ill cum violent people for his profession. Furthermore, his specialty is training *others* how to approach them as well (though it's my quite possibly wrong understanding a good portion of the "cowardly lion" stuff comes from Araki and not his aikido training).
    There's a good chunk of stuff that (I suspect) Ellis brings from Araki in his aikido as well . . .
  8. John A Butz is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2004 1:22pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sempai, your are corrct. I have a tendency to paint with a broad brush in the heat of my arguement, and I really need to develop some more conversational control.

    It should be noted that I know seveal aikidoka from most of the main systems who are excellent people, and quality practicioners. My beef is with an attitude that is prevelant in the majority of the community, but does not exist with everyone.

    As for verbal skills, conflcit resolution, and the like. We have attended seminars on the prevention of violence, verbal solutions, and other items of that nature. We are not qualified to teach it at present, but in the future we may be. Ellis works in the mental health field, and has related his opinion on the non-physical skills that aikido provides on many occasions as well.

    I have heard a lot of people express the opinion that repeated practice of the physical leads to the understanding of the mental. I do and do not believe that. I do believe that the confidence and control of martial practice can be a factor in personal interaction, I do not believe that the complex verbal skills required of a prison worker, police officer or any other similar profession can be learned through some sort of osmosis. They need to be taught, by someone qualified to do so.

    I am rambling at this point, so I will stop.
    Last edited by John A Butz; 1/21/2004 1:24pm at .
  9. DaveH is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/21/2004 1:26pm


     Style: Aikikai Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have heard a lot of people express the opinion that repeated practice of the physicla leads to the understanding of the mental. I do and do not believe that. I do believe that the confidence and control of martial practice can be a factor in personal interaction, I do not believe that the complex verbal skills required of a prison worker, police men or any other similar profession can be learned through some sort of osmosis. They need to be taught, by someone qualified to do so.
    Absolutely agreed.

    I for one would be most interested to see, negotiation and violence prevention included in some form of Aikido syllabus because that is very relevent to our society at large.
  10. John A Butz is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2004 1:43pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would too. I think that it would be an interesting study, and that aikido students could find aspects of their physical practice mirrored in the mental practice of verbal conflict resolution.

    Maybe a few of us should sit down and come up with a way to accomplish this sort of thing?
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