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  1. #31

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    Ikebukuro, Tokyo
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    823
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    Muay Thai
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, I do agree that some of the ukemi you do in aikido is too flashy and impractical though. I remember taking these huge breakfalls in order to make a demonstration look better. It was fun at the time, but I look back at it and wonder why I ever got caught up in that stuff. I've since given up aikido to try other arts, but I don't necessarily regret all the time I spent practicing it.

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    Canada
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    20,890
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    Shi Ja Quan
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aikido's standing evasive footwork is excellent.

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    689
    Style
    Yoseikan Budo
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yep the footwork is great but if you haven't trained against a full speed readjusting oponent you still get screwed the first few times you face those odds.

    of course now that I'm getting used to these odds my partners get a bit frustrated if I go in the non-conflict mindset and just avoid being hit without exchanging blows and go pass them to 'escape' :-)
    Martial Arts is like sex, if you over complicate it with exotic sounding names, theories and principles, you end up fucking yourself in the ass. -Ronin69

  4. #34

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,785
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    LolodesBois,

    Good comments and I agree. I've heard some good things about Yoseikan Budo.

  5. #35
    SMF's Avatar
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    Nov 2003
    Posts
    920
    Style
    Delusional Idiocy
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    aikido's standing evasive footwork is the no. one reason i'm into it at all! Thing is, ive never taken issue with how the ukemi waza has been taught to me (aikido iwama by the way)

  6. #36

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    Boiling Springs PA
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    417
    Style
    Various JMA
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Budd, please show me these tricks! I am most curious...

    Yoseikan is one of the good things to come out of the diversification of aikido. they look at many different aspects of fighting, and they know their stuff.

  7. #37

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    Boiling Springs PA
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    417
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    Various JMA
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    2 different approaches SMF.

    If you ever get a chance to train with Ellis, he will be able to give his reasons for taking ukemi the ways he does. If yours works for you, thats good by me.

  8. #38

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,785
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, another good aikido group is the Jiyushinkai Aiki group, based out of Arizona and founded by Chuck Clark. Their stuff mainly comes from Tomiki aikido (Shodokan, based on joining aikido and judo) and I'm told they have some excellent groundwork in their curriculum.

  9. #39

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    524
    Style
    japanese jujutsu
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Regarding the 5 training methods Ellis designed, they sound pretty close to xingyi's 5 elements (not surprising, last I saw him say anything about xingyi, he said he was training it about 3 hours/day).

    He uses a slightly different nomenclature, but I'll chime in a tad (Tadzio or Jenfucius might as well; corrections and further explanation are welcomed):

    1) piquan -- splitting fist. Essentially trains a circle in the vertical. It trains down power much like cuts with the jo or bokken do. For extra credit, it also trains some fascinating spiral energies. Bar none, it's my favorite piece of xingyiquan. It trains some fascinating throws, locks, and hits (its power is surprising; it *looks* like you're hitting downward, but I've had much better experiences with it driving *back* and down).

    2) bengquan -- crushing fist. Fundamentally, it's a powerful straight punch (metaphorically, it's described as an arrow shot out of a bow). It's not one of my favorites.

    3) zuanquan -- drilling fist. It looks like an uppercut, but it trains redirection of an initial attack and issuing power upwards. Furthermore, its initial storage phase makes for some elegant throws.

    4) paoquan -- cannon fist. More than the others, IMO, it trains obvious short, explosive power, ostensibly in the inside-outside direction.

    5) hengquan -- crossing fist. In my experience, this one is hard, Hard, HARD to generate adequate power with. If it didn't complement some prior training, I probably never would've seen its usefulness for various counters.

    Ellis once wrote something like, "xingyi is the art of kuzushi." While I'd never thought of that myself, I think it's accurate but a tad impoverished. I think it'd be more descriptive to call xingyi "the art of kuzushi by taking the other guys space."

  10. #40

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    Boiling Springs PA
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    417
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    Various JMA
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fragbot, I appreciate your input.

    I know he derived a lot of those excersise from xingyi. I would have to see those that you describe in order to see how they fall into the stuff I was shown, but I can place some of it from your descriptions.

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