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  1. 9chambers

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2002 11:35am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think understanding that mma is a sport and that it developes bad habbits just as easily as point sparring does is an important thing.

    Some bad habbits I have seem mma stylists exhibit:::

    *Staying in the guard and waiting things out. No fight between two people is going to last 10 minutes unless they are the only two people in the building. You'll either get pulled apart or someone will jump in and help.

    *Never targeting the groin - because it's not legal.

    *They tend to throw a lot of low round kicks but no straight kicks. Don't give me this "that's because they don't work" bullshit either. A solid front stamp to the stomach, solar plexus or lower abdomen can seal the breath or send a guy to the mat.

    Maybe the participants aren't familiar with how to throw them from a front guard - or maybe its just one of the many things they disscourage back stage.

    *No targeting the neck - that's not legal. That's one reason you don't see a lot of open hand strikes in the UFC. For example: a chop to the collarbone can break it - that is the easiest bone on the body to break - but that would be intentionally trying to injure your opponant. That is not legal according to UFC rules.

    * No wrist locks or ankle locks since small joint manipulation isn't legal. A wrist lock on the ground can be just as effective as an arm bar.

    *No wearing clothes. When you fight in your underwear that really isn't realistic. When, in real life are you going to fight in your underwear. About 75% of Jujitsu is out the window when the guy doesn't have a shirt on to grab.

    *No spiking is a rule. From a front naked choke on a shooting opponant you could sprawl and spike his face into the mat repeatedly - only that isn't legal.

    *Not many throws or suplexes in the UFC - because landing on the canvas doesn't have the desired effect that a throw would have on hard ground, I guess. Also, no spiking again.

    *Guys go to the guard not worrying about getting their head shoved down onto pavement.

    I could go on but I want to respond to other stuff. Later.

    my kung fu eeeeeees better than yours!
  2. SifuAbel is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2002 8:26pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: LongFist CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Bullshit"


    Is that what you're made of stipe? Or is that just what comes out of your mouth.

    Lets get Stephen Hawking to do BJJ. It must cure any disease, make the meekest individual into superman.

    Stipey you definatly ALONE on that last statement.

    McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?
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  3. SifuAbel is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2002 8:33pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: LongFist CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    9,

    MMA is what it is, Mixed martial arts. Primarily, MT and (insert style) grappling. You don't see many front kicks in MT. Some but not a lot; especially in the western versions. Even for MT some of the striking is lackluster in the MMA venues. Its heavy, but not technically perfect.

    McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?
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  4. Stipe is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2002 3:37pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    > Stipey you definatly ALONE on that last statement.


    WHAT?

    I stand alone on the statement that all martial arts are not "equally worth", and that "it's the practitioner, NOT the style", and similar PC bullshit, made so that various TMAers don't feel like they've been being ripped off and wasting their time, really IS bullshit?


    I don't think so, matey.
    It's not all style, and giving Hawking a BJJ blackbelt would not make him a better fighter, but that's taking things to ridiculous extremes.

    What's important is what's a better pick for a guy if he wants to be a better fighter, if that is his desire - and the whole "styles" debate that goes with it is so fucking passe that even for a nitpicking retard, you seem to be LATE.


    - Stipe -
  5. SifuAbel is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/23/2002 2:07am

    Join us... or die
     Style: LongFist CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nope not that statement , i must have missed a post or two.

    This is what i was posting to.

    "And I forgot another thing :

    > BJJ or any other art is only as good as the person using it.


    Bullshit.


    - Stipe -"


    McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?
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  6. Stipe is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2002 7:44am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That statement I was replying to actually reads "all MAs are good, and will make you a shiny happy fighter" to me. Cause it was a PART of a "this style vs that style" context (which, btw, got real old and boring, like 200 years ago).

    And I think that's bullshit.

    I am not saying it is all style. But style IS more important.
    If you take a fat slob today and give him two years of BJJ he'll kick ass of _any_ decently athletical guy who spent his two years of TKD, assuming TKDer is not ten times stronger / bigger / whatever.
    He'll get somewhat fitter, but in THIS context, it shows that you can't rate arts like that guy did.


    E.g. BJJ is "only as good as the person using it" IF HE FIGHTS ANOTHER BJJer. In other cases, it is not, you cannot say that cause e.g. 2 years of BJJ alone are on the average better than 20 years of TKD PLUS cardio workout.


    - Stipe -
  7. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/24/2002 5:09am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >If you take a fat slob today and give him two years of BJJ he'll kick ass of _any_ decently athletical guy who spent his two years of TKD, assuming TKDer is not ten times stronger / bigger / whatever

    Your kidding, right!


    What was implied is that you the STYLE vs STYLE thing is stupid becaue its not the STYLEs that are fighting it is two pple!!! I crappy MA guy is going to lose to a good MA guy, period!!! Doesn't matter what they use. Not everyone who is training in MA is going to be a good fighter, that is FACT. It doesn't depend on what style he trains. If he sucks he sucks.

    Therefore is a guy used BJJ and he sucks at it does it mean BJJ is bad? No it means HE sucks. BJJ wont magicly make him good. That is why I said "BJJ is only as good as the person using it."

    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
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  8. Stipe is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2002 6:24am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    > What was implied is that you the STYLE vs STYLE thing is stupid becaue its not the STYLEs that are fighting it is two pple!!!


    To say that styles aren't important just because people, not styles, are fighting, is stone cold dumb.
    Yeah, it is the people fighting, but they are *using* their 'styles', the techniques they know.


    I do agree that the style vs style debates really ARE stupid cause it's ALL been said and done ALREADY, it's a settled topic.


    > I crappy MA guy is going to lose to a good MA guy, period!!! Doesn't matter what they use.


    Yeah, and my grandma wouldn't fare well in Vale Tudo, even if Royce was training her.
    So what? I don't see how's that of any true relevance.


    Dude, in a world where any average BJJer will own almost any 99th percentile TKDer, you cannot say that "it's the person, not the style".

    It is both, with style being the more important factor.


    - Stipe -
  9. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/24/2002 11:53am

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     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll say this ONE MORE TIME for the benifit of the mentally handicapped.....

    If I was to drive a Formula-1 car and Mario Andretti was to drive a Station Wagon who would win in a race?

    "It's not the style, it's the practitioner."

    Thats the favorite saying of hopless people.

    "Its not that what I learned is nearly unworkable! You just havent seen the REAL Masters yet...."

    And NOBODY else has either man.

    Certain styles have fundamental advantages over others. BJJ is one of the best styles for actual streetfighting. TKD, Karate, and all the others advocate punching and kicker a bigger, stronger, heavier person with a longer reach and whith a body capable of taking more punishment.

    Its nonsense.

    What Stipe said about an average Fat Guy and a athletic person taking BJJ and TKD would be correct 9 times out of 10.

    We have to allow a little bit for BLIND LUCK otherwise it would be 10 out of 10.

    Knockouts are never achieved quickly in a street encounter between 2 angry people unless one os jumped. Again there MAY be that %1 but I dont think anyone here likes those odds.

    Their going to scuffle, hit each other, fall down, and the TKD man is going to cry for mommy because there IS no groundfighting in TKD.

    Remember Maurice Smith beating Wrestler Mark Coleman? Ohhhh that just PROVES Kickboxing is better than Wrestling right? Well....didnt Smith use the Guard for nearly the ENTIRE MATCH? Whens the last time you saw a kickboxer use the guard? There IS no Guard in Kickboxing! Maurice Smith had to become a GROUNDFIGHTER on order to have a chance.

    If some stlyes arent better than others than why dont you all just train at the cheapest place you can find in ANY style? The system doesnt matter, right? YOU matter. Yoga, Tai Chi, Wushu....ALL of these should be equal to Muay Thai or Savate, or Wing Chun right?

    BOOL-SHEET!

    The funny thing is that you KNOW its boolsheet!


    "Do not become entranced by impractical or useless movements. Do not be categorized as one who "Learns all there is to know about less and less until he ends up learning everything there is to know about nothing." -Ed Parker
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  10. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/24/2002 7:39pm

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >What Stipe said about an average Fat Guy and a athletic person taking BJJ and TKD would be correct 9 times out of 10.

    PD, You tell me some Fat out of shape slob is going to thrash someone in good shape!?!?! Come on even you can't beleive this. Tell you what find some lard ass give him some BJJ lessons and send him my way. Once I am done tying lard ass into a knot I will send him back.

    >Their going to scuffle, hit each other, fall down, and the TKD man is going to cry for mommy because there IS no groundfighting in TKD

    One thing I haven't seen yet is all this nonsense that "Most fights go to the ground" PLEASE give me the statistics on this. Show me who did the study. From MY personal expereince this is not true very little got to the ground, even now with the advent of grappling making a strong presence. Sorry I have been in MA for over 20+ years. My strongest points have always been my grappling skills, I can punch like a jack hammner but even with TKD and Savate I don't rely on my kicking, and I have found most REAL fights are quick and tend to stay standing EVEN if one is a grappler. Show me the reports that prove me wrong. Now given my history of street fights I admit if "grounding and pounding" the guy would end the fight quickly I would do it, but for the most part it was not advantageous to do so, specially now with more and more pple learning grappling skills I would not want to end up tussling for a long time, the longer you fight the great the chance of losing.

    >Remember Maurice Smith beating Wrestler Mark Coleman? Ohhhh that just PROVES Kickboxing is better than Wrestling right? Well....didnt Smith use the Guard for nearly the ENTIRE MATCH? Whens the last time you saw a kickboxer use the guard? There IS no Guard in Kickboxing! Maurice Smith had to become a GROUNDFIGHTER on order to have a chance.

    It was no secret that Maurice was working on his ground game. And I admit for him to stand a chance he needed it for this SPORT. But look at other factors. WHO was in better shape? Maurice, Coleman was getting very winded in the fight. On the stand up game maurice dominated. If he was on the ground Maurice used the gaurd to keep Coleman at bay until he got back on his feet, smart man. All that means was Maurice was the better fighter at that injunction. Big deal.

    >If some stlyes arent better than others than why dont you all just train at the cheapest place you can find in ANY style? The system doesnt matter, right? YOU matter. Yoga, Tai Chi, Wushu....ALL of these should be equal to Muay Thai or Savate, or Wing Chun right?

    Dude if you SUCK you SUCK, PERIOD!!! I don't give a **** what you are training in. Like I said if a crappy BJJ guy gets beat by a good karateka (let just pick Kyokushin) does that mean one is better than the other? No it means the guy sucked plain and simple. I also say that NO art holds all the answers and I have always advocated crosstraining. Hell I done many arts in my years and trying to find answers for the weaknesses in each and up playing the strengths.But even with doing that if the person SUCKS he SUCKS!!!


    FYI YOGA is NOT a MA!!! Despite what some Amazonian Fems try to pass off. Kalayaparit is a MA.

    >Certain styles have fundamental advantages over others. BJJ is one of the best styles for actual streetfighting

    It is good but I would not call it the BEST. I still want to see all this evidence that it is the best for a REAL fight. From MY experience (mind you I deal with things that the average joe does not) it isn't.

    From all the guys I have met BJJ, MMA, TMA, etc. They all tend to agree the PERSON makes the style. These are guys that I KNOW personally and have "been in the trenches" (some along side me) not the NET NINJAs I see today. Your average joe MA is not likely to need his MA skills. Many train for a POSSIBLE conflict. I deal with guys who KNOW they are going to be in a conflict. Who's insight do you think is better. Joe HOBBYIST or Combat Vet. (Yes I know firearms play a BIG part in our combat but my last 2 deployments have dealt with Non-lethal and H2H situations.)

    Anyways I am tired, and tipsy a BAVARIAN BEER ROCKS!!! I am going to bed. Catch your rebuttal tommorow.



    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
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