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  1. Munacra is offline
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    I Ducked Out on a Gong Sau

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2009 4:23pm


     Style: Gentleman Adventurer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    He was still best in the country in high school, and best in Cali in Junior College. In my book that means he's better than many, many wrestlers. I guess "elite" should really be reserved for Olympic and World level wrestlers. I guess he's just "really good".
    Nope. Not even that. "Good" would be more appropriate.
  2. Matt Phillips is online now
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2009 5:44pm

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     Style: Submission Grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Munacra View Post
    Nope. Not even that. "Good" would be more appropriate.
    That would make Tito "fair" and most MMA pros "poor"
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  3. Matt Phillips is online now
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2009 5:46pm

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     Style: Submission Grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ErikW View Post
    Or, because they are all related to Judo and Boxing....OH YEAH!!!! I brought it back around town. ErikW 1 - TMA 0!!!!
    TMA is staring to lose all meaning if San Shou is TMA and Judo is not. They are all combat sports.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  4. Munacra is offline
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    I Ducked Out on a Gong Sau

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2009 6:23pm


     Style: Gentleman Adventurer

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    That would make Tito "fair" and most MMA pros "poor"
    You're getting it!
  5. Matt Phillips is online now
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2009 10:06pm

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     Style: Submission Grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Munacra View Post
    You're getting it!
    Lol. OK, just calbrating my scale. Cung is a better wrestler than most in MMA.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  6. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2009 1:28pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    Lol. OK, just calbrating my scale. Cung is a better wrestler than most in MMA.
    Based on what?
    We haven't seen him do pretty much any wrestling in MMA.
    There are many MMA athletes that have very respectable collegiate wrestling credentials and some with experience on the national team.

    national team > collegiate > high school

    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    Competing in combat SAMBO does not make him a Draka stylist, but it does mean he is, at the very least, competing against/training with people who have that background. Plus, I can see it (you can see it in Vov too).
    You're pretty much changing the goal posts to your advantage. Just to refresh your memory, what you stated was:
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    (It) is clear we are entering an era where the elite MMA fighter is something more interesting than Pat Milletich's MMA Frankenstein. The champions of tomorrow (and today!) are going to be (each) an indvivdual work of (martial) art. We now have Fedor, Cung, Lyoto, and GSP each expressing a style that is unique to them, not something you can roll into an MMA gym and learn, but their own unique expression, reflecting their personal path through the arts.
    Fedor and GSP are each certainly Milletich's MMA Frankensteins. They just happen to be very, very good everywhere whereas Pat's guys tended to be specialists that were pretty well rounded. Cung is irrelevant because he hasn't shown anything (and is unlikely to since now he's apparently an actor). Only Lyoto really represents what you suggest.
  7. Matt Phillips is online now
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2009 1:57pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa View Post
    Based on what?
    We haven't seen him do pretty much any wrestling in MMA.
    There are many MMA athletes that have very respectable collegiate wrestling credentials and some with experience on the national team.

    national team > collegiate > high school



    You're pretty much changing the goal posts to your advantage. Just to refresh your memory, what you stated was:


    Fedor and GSP are each certainly Milletich's MMA Frankensteins. They just happen to be very, very good everywhere whereas Pat's guys tended to be specialists that were pretty well rounded. Cung is irrelevant because he hasn't shown anything (and is unlikely to since now he's apparently an actor). Only Lyoto really represents what you suggest.
    I said Cung is a better wrestler, not that he has better MMA wrestling.

    What does my observation that the stand up in combat SAMBO often has a Draka influence have to do with the fact that Fedor's base art is combat SAMBO? I see more and more guys rising to the top who have more going on than just the big 4. I might be wrong, but I predict more of this in the future. How do you train for a division (in the future) where all the top guys have their MMA basics down, and have a base art like (say) ammy Sumo or "Kali Tudo" or Panantukan? Its a lot easier to be prepared for anything today than it will in the near future. IMHO.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 5/30/2009 2:02pm at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  8. Munacra is offline
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    I Ducked Out on a Gong Sau

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2009 2:07pm


     Style: Gentleman Adventurer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    I said Cung is a better wrestler, not that he has better MMA wrestling.

    What does my observation that the stand up in combat SAMBO often has a Draka influence have to do with the fact that Fedor's base art is combat SAMBO? I see more and more guys rising to the top who have more going on than just the big 4. I might be wrong, but I predict more of this in the future. How do you train for a division (in the future) where all the top guys have their MMA basics down, and have a base art like (say) ammy Sumo or "Kali Tudo" or Panantukan? Its a lot easier to be prepared for anything today than it will in the near future. IMHO.
    \

    Did you read the quote about Fedor's striking coach saying that his striking was basic boxing, and that before that, he didn't have much formal striking instruction?
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